trailering up/down steep grade...
Safet
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2010-05-21 4:15 PM (#120434)
Subject: trailering up/down steep grade...


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When trailering up and down steep grades, is there any advice about how to safely tow? I've been towing with my Sooner five days a week and feel comfortable with the wider right turns and small hills. I'll soon be trying the mountain passes and there are some long, steep grades. I worry about the truck during the long uphill and downhill drive...

My trailer is a Sooner four horse gooseneck (not living quarter).
My truck is a 1999 F350 4x4, 7.3L Superduty Powerstroke diesel (hope I got the truck lingo correct).

Thanks!
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Sundancer's Sidekick
Reg. Jun 2009
Posted 2010-05-21 4:58 PM (#120435 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...



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Up will be no problem...
Select a gear that gives 2000 to 2500 rpm.

Down can be a test. Make sure your trailer brakes are in good condition and operating optimally. Slow and downshift as you top the grade, diesels do not hold a load back as well as gassers unless you have an engine or transmission retarder.

If your rpms approach 2800 you need to brake and downshift. Better to be in lower gear to start and maintain rpms under 2500. Brakes will overheat and fade quickly under heavy use.

Check brakes for overheating a few miles past downgrade, but certainly before attempting another.

Same concept (different rpms) apply to 18 wheelers - but they have more brake surface and usually retarders.

Edited by Sundancer's Sidekick 2010-05-21 4:59 PM
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Safet
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2010-05-21 8:50 PM (#120442 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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Thank you. What is an engine retarder?How do I know if my trailer brakes are working optimally?

Edited by Safet 2010-05-21 8:51 PM
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cowpony01
Reg. Mar 2006
Posted 2010-05-21 9:39 PM (#120444 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...



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If you down shift and it's a manual, you should have no problems going down. Also if you have an exhaust brake that will help alot. I have a '97 F250, manual,  7.3l with 4.10 gearing and an exhaust and never had any issues towing over the passes of the Sierra Nevadas of California going over Hwys 4, 108 and 88. I now tow with a '07, 2500, 6.7l manual Dodge with an exhaust and still have no issues. The exhaust brake will save your brakes too.

 

I tow all summer long up and down the tight and I mean "really" tight turns and steep up and down grades back and forth into Nevada from home and never have an issue towing. Just gotta know how to tow and use your gearing, etc.



Edited by cowpony01 2010-05-21 9:41 PM
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Sundancer's Sidekick
Reg. Jun 2009
Posted 2010-05-21 10:08 PM (#120447 - in reply to #120442)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...



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Originally written by Safet on 2010-05-21 8:50 PM

Thank you. What is an engine retarder?How do I know if my trailer brakes are working optimally?


A true engine retarder is commonly called a "Jake", short for Jacobson engine brake. This system uses internally installed engine components which utilize compression to reduce rpms. If you have heard the "brap brap brap" coming from the exhaust of a slowing big rig, you have heard a Jake in action. Unavailable for PowerStrokes, though I have heard of aftermarket installations on Dodge Cummins.

Not to be confused with turbo or exhaust mounted "Exhaust Brakes" which are available and marginally effective.

Optimizing your electric trailer brakes involves making sure you have good and properly adjusted shoes; clean shoes, drums, magnets and guides; good wiring and a properly adjusted trailer brake controller that you know how to use manually and can adjust on the fly.

For automatic transmissions, certain of the larger, newer rigs come with an Allison transmission with retarder which combined with good working trailer brakes are beyond excellent.

Your 7.3 with good brakes and trailer brakes will do fine as long as you stay alert and keep from over reving. I have pulled a fully loaded 4 horse over the steepest and longest passes in Colorado with much the same.
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-05-21 10:26 PM (#120450 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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On the up hill sections, you'll want to manually downshift the transmission to keep your engine revs up a bit and reduce the torque needed to pull the grade. With an auto transmission, this will prevent the constant gear changing and maintain a more even RPM. This will reduce your water and transmission temperatures. It would be advisable to have your transmission fluid and filter updated and possibly switched to a synthetic. This will lower your operating temps. Not running your engine flat out will lower the boost pressures, and again lower your temps.

If you have an engine braking devise, it will greatly help. If you don't, start your descents at a slow speed in a lower gear. If you allow your revs to approach the top end of your rev range, do NOT downshift; you may exceed your redline in a lower gear. Try to keep your revs low enough not to red line. Using your brakes sporadically instead of constantly, will reduce their operating temps and allow them to cool a bit between applications.

Take your time and don't even try to maintain normal traffic speeds. The safety of you and your rig, is more important than some tailgater in a hurry to no where.

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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2010-05-21 11:01 PM (#120451 - in reply to #120450)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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Originally written by gard on 2010-05-21 7:26 PM

 start your descents at a slow speed in a lower gear. If you allow your revs to approach the top end of your rev range, do NOT downshift; you may exceed your redline in a lower gear. Try to keep your revs low enough not to red line. Using your brakes sporadically instead of constantly, will reduce their operating temps and allow them to cool a bit between applications.

Safet ... Just to clarify Gard's post.  You didn't say if your truck has an auto or manual trnsmission.  The idea is to start the downhill slow and with the truck in a lower gear.  With a manual transmission, it's difficult to shift to a lower gear when the truck is speeding downhill.  So start the descent in low gear.  The engine will keep the gain in downhill speed slow enough to allow cycles of brake on ...brake off. 

A Jake brake makes diesel engines more effective at slowing.  Even running the A/C at full blast helps engine braking.

 

As Gard said ... the brakes can then cool between applications.  Constantly pressing on the brakes during a long hill descent will overheat the brakes and you will have no brakes at some point.   

Those run-a-way-truck escape ramps will tear up your rig.   You really don't want to have to use it.  But they will stop a run-a-way

 

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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-05-22 11:08 AM (#120453 - in reply to #120451)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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Originally written by hosspuller on 2010-05-21 12:01 AM

Originally written by gard on 2010-05-21 7:26 PM

 start your descents at a slow speed in a lower gear. If you allow your revs to approach the top end of your rev range, do NOT downshift; you may exceed your redline in a lower gear. Try to keep your revs low enough not to red line. Using your brakes sporadically instead of constantly, will reduce their operating temps and allow them to cool a bit between applications.

Safet ... Just to clarify Gard's post.   As Gard said ...  

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a personal translator

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cowpony01
Reg. Mar 2006
Posted 2010-05-22 11:43 AM (#120455 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...



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Just for info, I believe your Ford has the exhaust brake in it, you just need the switch and what not to turn it on. Ford would never tell anyone that for a long time. We got ours  at Hyper Diesel years ago. There are many different companies out there. I know the Dodges already have them in and the switch in the dash now.
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flyinghfarm
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2010-05-22 2:01 PM (#120458 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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Ours is a 2000 7.3L 4.10 rear auto tranny. We also have a Scorpion engine brake installed, it is a help.......reduces braking off your foot pedal maybe 50%. We have pulled a 3h with 10' short wall LQ, with 3 mules (1100 lbs, 1000 lbs, and 900 lbs) and all their gear for a hunting trip over and down Loveland Pass, CO. That is a 12 mile run all up or all down, and you will see smoking fading brakes on someone every time you run it. We went up in 2nd, and came down in 2nd, letting the rig coast on the down hill till it got to 40mph, then would use the foot brake till it was down to 35mph, and let off. It would take a while to get back to 40 mph, then we'd do it again. Brakes did not overheat, and we set no speed records (!), but got down the grade safe every time. We did change our truck to all synthetic, and put in a K&N air filter. Take your time, and have the trailer brakes inspected and properly adjusted at a trailer place. They jack up the wheel and use a special tool on the inside of the brake drum to make the optimum adustments. Money WELL spent (spoken by someone who, years and years ago, has gratefully exited the vehicle with shaking knees and tears, observing multiple failures and just glad the rig and animals survived....and that was in the Ozarks!)

Edited by flyinghfarm 2010-05-22 2:02 PM
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Phoresic
Reg. May 2010
Posted 2010-05-22 3:04 PM (#120459 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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I took my 2005 6.0 over Wolf Creek Pass Dec or Jan.  One direction is was an empty 31 foot gooseneck with pretty good road  and one way it was fully loaded (two little cars) in a blizzard with close to  a foot of new snow already accumulated. 

I've taken the diesel loaded over many of the Colorado and New Mexico passes and haven't had a problem.  (The Wolf Creek trip was the most heavily loaded I think, and certainly the most snow.) There is something that comes on to assist slowing in the descents - and I didn't have it installed so they must come with something.  I should know what, but I don't.  I guess I'll look into it. 

 

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Wild Bill
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2010-05-22 10:47 PM (#120472 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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Safet, if you don't have a exhaust break get one, like the others have said, it will save your brakes and possibly having a accident. I also pull over Sonora Pass in California and before I got my exhaust brake you can really wind the engine up tight even in low gear. Remember,you have alot of weight pushing you down hill especially being loaded. Best money I ever spent on my truck was getting my engine brake. Do your research if you decide to get one, thier or 4 or 5 differant mfg. out thier to choose from, some you have to have a belt some don't. I have the PacBrake and love it so far. Good luck.
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whh
Reg. Jan 2010
Posted 2010-05-25 11:44 AM (#120539 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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Safet, if your truck is an auto the every time you apply the brakes your torque converter unlocks. There is an easy fix for this if you or soomeone you know is just a little handy in the mechanical dept. Let me know if you are interested  and I can explain how to do it.
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Safet
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2010-05-27 11:44 PM (#120667 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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Thanks so much everyone for the advice! For those that asked, my truck is an automatic.

Is there a way I can figure out if my truck has the exhaust brake?

When I drive up the pass, I'll be sure the overdrive is off and I'll get going really slow on the downhill side. I'll also get the truck/trailer in to a trailer place to get the brakes checked.

We are only taking one horse on the long trip (for us) over the pass this fall, so hopefully there won't be too much push on the truck.



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hogtownboss
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2010-05-28 10:45 PM (#120713 - in reply to #120667)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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Originally written by Safet on 2010-05-27 11:44 PM

Is there a way I can figure out if my truck has the exhaust brake? 

If your truck is all stock in original form, it will NOT have an exhaust brake, Ford and GM never was smart enough to add one yet.  Dodge did not get smart enough until 2007.5.....

There is a way to lock and unlock the TC in the tranny, but could make your tranny over heat.  In my opinion what I would do is find someone to install a Pac Brake on the exhaust and go.

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hogtownboss
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2010-05-28 10:56 PM (#120714 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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Here is a Pacbrake I found on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-POWERSTROKE-EXHAUST-BRAKE-NEW-PACBRAKE-/120575450419?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c12db5d33

Also here is another deal that is chaeper that works off of the warm up valve, never used one myself but for the price, I might have to tr one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-PowerStroke-7-3-Diesel-Chip-Tuner-Exhaust-Brake-/320500898344?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4a9f579a28

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Safet
Reg. May 2009
Posted 2010-05-29 9:40 AM (#120718 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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Thanks hogtownboss.
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statzk
Reg. May 2006
Posted 2010-06-01 3:43 PM (#120805 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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I love the exhaust brake on my 2010 Ram 3500. Works so well I can coast to a stop at the top of off-ramps with three horses and hardly ever touch the brake pedal. Very cool-
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2010-06-01 9:47 PM (#120822 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...



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Does your dodge exhaust brake work clear to a stop?  The after market ones I have experience with disengage at 25 mph. You don't want your Torque Convertor to stay locked up when you are trying to stop.

The 2011 Ford and GM both offer factory exhaust brakes.

I have the BD Exhaust brake on my 2006 Ford. It works very well. I can come down 7% grades and not touch my brake pedal. The exhaust brake holds back my rig. My LQ when I had it would max out at 16,000lbs. The exhaust brake would hold that load. 

Currently my exhaust brake is disabled, there is a circuit board that I need to replace and just haven't had the extra money. My current trailer doesn't have a LQ and usually is around 10,000 to 11,000lbs.  My truck in the tow/haul mode handles that load just fine on long 7% grades.

The biggest challenge is creeping down long dirt roads. Where the I'm crawling along at 5mph and the exhaust brake has not effect.

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statzk
Reg. May 2006
Posted 2010-06-02 10:14 AM (#120831 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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The Exhaust brake on the Cummins works all the way to a stop, or at least 5-10MPH. I know it works well below 25MHP- with it I can coast down to where I just have to touch the brake pedal at the stop signs at the top of off-ramps. :-)
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2010-06-02 11:19 AM (#120833 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...



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That's interesting, I'll have to looking to that.  Most systems release the Torque convertor so they don't bog down the engine as the vehicle reaches slower speeds.

 

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statzk
Reg. May 2006
Posted 2010-06-02 11:52 AM (#120834 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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I believe it is because the EB on the Dodge is not a true exhaust brake but is actually an integral part of the turbocharger, it cuts the exhaust by closing all the turbo vanes rather than a true exhaust brake. Dodge claims it is 30% more effective than an aftermarket add-on EB. Don't know about all that but I can tell you it works down to low speeds- even works at idle to help warm up the engine quicker. The exhaust brake actually engages by itself at idle in low temps (just got my truck so I did not know that until I did some internet research), although it will come off when the throttle is engaged.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2010-06-02 7:18 PM (#120857 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...



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It' not a question of if the EB stays engaged. But rather how slow the Torque Converter stays locked up.

All Torque Convertors unlock and "free wheel" at some speed as you decelerate.  When the torque converters unlock, the truck goes into a Coast mode and the engine has no effect on the wheels until you try to speed up.   Otherwise you'd kill your engine at every stop sign. So I know the dodge doesn't stay locked up to complete stop. 

On normal street driving this is appropraite. But when you are in driving in very rough roads. The Torque Coverter often unlocks at speed faster than you want to crawl along.

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Prairieland
Reg. Feb 2010
Posted 2010-06-03 9:23 AM (#120877 - in reply to #120450)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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We have always tapped brakes going down hill instead of applying the brakes steadily. We had a retired truck driver tell us this last weekend that the best way to do that is apply brakes steadily going downhill. Didn't know what to think because it was opposite from what we had heard. Then I read your post and agree with you but still think the retired truck driver would know the best way. What do you think?
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-06-03 9:47 AM (#120880 - in reply to #120434)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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If you keep your foot on the pedal, the brake pads will always contact the rotors and heat up. By releasing the pedal the pads will retract, and momentarily allow the rotors, pads and calipers to cool.
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windy
Reg. Oct 2004
Posted 2010-06-03 10:35 AM (#120883 - in reply to #120877)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...





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Originally written by Prairieland on 2010-06-03 8:23 AM

We have always tapped brakes going down hill instead of applying the brakes steadily. We had a retired truck driver tell us this last weekend that the best way to do that is apply brakes steadily going downhill. Didn't know what to think because it was opposite from what we had heard. Then I read your post and agree with you but still think the retired truck driver would know the best way. What do you think?

As an old time truck driver from way back, from Colorado, with over a million and a half miles in big trucks, what he told you was not wrong, however, when you do it this way, the amount of pressure you put on the brakes is critical. With semi's and air brakes, you have an applied pressure air gauge that tells you how much pressure you are braking with. In the old days, before most of the trucks had jake brakes(engine brakes), you could come down a long grade a little bit faster by applying about 5 or 6 psi to your trailer brakes going down the hill. Not enough to overheat your brakes, but enough that you could go down the grade at maybe 20 mph instead of 15 mph. We are talking much slower speeds than what people drive now, and as I said, minimal pressure on the brakes. It's not the way I drive my pickup and trailer in the mountains now, and it's not what I would recommend. For one thing, our pickup brakes these days are disc brakes, and while they don't fade like the drum brakes do when hot, the rotors will warp and crack. The main thing in the mountains is to slow down at the top of the hill, before you start down- it takes a lot less brakes to do that than to try to slow down when you're gaining speed headed down the steep hill.

Good luck!

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Prairieland
Reg. Feb 2010
Posted 2010-06-03 2:53 PM (#120890 - in reply to #120883)
Subject: RE: trailering up/down steep grade...


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Slow is how we go. Once got on a road between caprock state park in Texas and Palo Duro Canyon State Park that put us in the red on rpm's. Slow we were going but just too long and too steep both down and up hill. Thanks for info. Makes sense! Will follow your advice.
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