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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | HI all,Just had a bad travel day this last weekend having a blowout on my truck and trailer. First blow out on trailer 12 miles, truck 3 hours later. Last thing I did was check tire pressure on all tires before leaving, running 80 psi on all tires except on front truck tires 70. 10 ply on all tires, 5 years old on truck and 4 years on trailer, always garaged. Sooo shopping for tires for my truck and trailer and looking for suggestions on what would be good tires.Also questioning going up on the ply for my trailer. Is there an advantage moving up to a 12 or 14 ply. I was told by one dealer it's not so much the ply as the quality of tires, thoughts?I try to keep good tires, watch my tire pressure and have on hand all the supplies I need to change a tire. I learn something new each time I change a tire. I have a 2002 truck and bought it in 2004 and only had one flat on my truck in 12 years, thank god! This blowout very scary and very lucky... I can change a trailer tire but I really had to think about changing my truck tire when you have to roll it down from underneath and I should do it just for practice & check air pressure. Thankfully a highway patrolman stopped when I was trying to loosen lugs and helped me change my tire. When we got looking at my spare, neither one of us thought that it looked very good, dry rotted. The one thing I've never thought about was changing my spare tire. I drove 40 mph on the interstate with flashers on until I met a good friend who pulled my trailer the rest of the way home. When I replace my tires this time, I changing my spare too. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 656
 
Location: Rayne, LA | NOTHING but American------ NO CHINEESE |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | Already have been told that advice " no tires from China" and another one to be sure to check the DOT date on tires.I was recommended a trailer tire by Goodyear "Marathon" and the size my trailer has on it now is ST 235/85R16/ and the "Marathon" tire is an 235/80R15 looking at 14 ply. They tell me the size difference is maybe 1/4". Would there be any problems? Need to go home and see what's on my Sidekick plate to see what the manufactures had on them. |
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Veteran
Posts: 124
Location: Calgary, Canada | Your tires should be rated based on the maximum loaded weight of your truck and trailer and also considering your Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR).
A 10 ply tire (“Load Range E”) typically has a maximum load rating of 3042 lbs at the rated 80 psi maximum inflation pressure.
A 14 ply tire (“Load Range G”) typically has a load rating of 3750 lbs at the rated 110 psi maximum inflation pressure.
You would not normally put 14 ply tires on a 2 horse bumper pull trailer, as it would be too stiff of a tire in a light weight application.
You also should not put at 10 ply tire on a 16,000 lb LQ trailer, as the tire would be overloaded and could be subject to premature failure.
In short, you need to look at your truck and trailer weights (keeping in mind the actual loaded axle weights) to determine what tires you should be using.
We are running Michelin XPS RIB LT235-85-R16 10 ply tires (Load Range E) on our 3H Gooseneck with 2 x 6000 lb axles. The trailer weights 6200 lbs empty (with 4700 lbs on the trailer axles) and is an estimated 10,000 lbs loaded.
We are running Goodyear G614 RST LT235-85-R16 14 ply tires (Load Range G) on our 3H Gooseneck, 13 ft LQ with 2 x 7000 lb axles. The trailer weighs 11,600 lbs empty and 16,700 lbs loaded (12,300 lbs on the trailer axles and 4400 lbs on the gooseneck hitch).
Two different trailers, two different tire requirements.
I consider that the Michelin and Goodyear tires that we are running to be top of the line tires for these applications.
Regards, 3CW
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | Thanks ThreeCW for the information. I don't normally pull my trailer empty and was going by a certified weigh station so I had my truck and trailer weighed on this trip before I picked up Ms. Kitty. I'll look at my printout and take that into consideration before purchasing tires. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 720
| Just me, but in the 16" I prefer to stay with the LT rather than the ST. I seem to get more life from them and have had less issues. The weight ratings that were just given above are for a LT. The ST are different, actually higher. They just don't seem to actually perform that well for me however. |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
Location: Pataskala, Ohio | I will not use ST tires at all. I use LT on all my trailers and have had very little trouble at all. I went through 8 ST tires one trip, Ohio to Colorado and back. It was stupid hot and tread separated. The truck had no issues on LT tires. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | Just reading up on the LT & ST's difference and there's pro and cons for both. I really want to get what's best for my trailer & safety. Other opinions of the two?Thanks
Edited by horsin around 2016-07-14 5:57 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1989
Location: South Central OK | I also use LT tires and have changed all the trailers to them. The 22' show stock, 24' cattle, the 28' flatbed and all the smaller BP trailers. Unless I 'had' to use the ST tires I would stick with LT but then I'd most likely jump to semi-truck tires and skip ST all together. |
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Member
Posts: 45
Location: Pontotoc MS | My brother in law kept blowing tires on his trailer. He would check tire pressure before each trip and inflate to 80 psi. He installed tire pressure monitor system and learned on hot days tire pressure would go above maximum pressure. He has to inflate about 10 or so psi below max to save tires. |
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Expert
Posts: 3853
Location: Vermont | Originally written by Kwarren on 2016-07-14 11:13 PM
My brother in law kept blowing tires on his trailer. He would check tire pressure before each trip and inflate to 80 psi. He installed tire pressure monitor system and learned on hot days tire pressure would go above maximum pressure. He has to inflate about 10 or so psi below max to save tires. Exactly how many mph over the speed limit does your brother-in-law travel?... Under inflated tires will overheat!!!
Edited by PaulChristenson 2016-07-14 11:06 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | Still debating on what ply I'd like to get. I had someone at Goodyear say he's seen too many tires come in (ST) that if it was him personally, he'd get the LT. He mentioned someone with 3 axles on a camper having problems with ST and switched to the LT and he's happy 4 years later. Not understanding weight vs ply needs. My printout from CAT scale trailer empty reads; Steer axle 4400 lb, Drive axle 8800 lb, Trailer axle 4320 lb, gross weight 17520 lb. According to the weight, what ply would I need?From what I've read about the manufactures suggestions and heard from other personal experiences, running 80 lbs would still be the best. I'm hoping switching to an LT tire will help from having the blowouts. I run 65 - 70 on the interstate so running slower might help too. I found out ST tire's speed limit is 65 mph so sometimes I was running too high a speed for the tire. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 788
Location: Tenn/Ala. | Originally written by Kwarren on 2016-07-14 8:13 PM
My brother in law kept blowing tires on his trailer. He would check tire pressure before each trip and inflate to 80 psi. He installed tire pressure monitor system and learned on hot days tire pressure would go above maximum pressure. He has to inflate about 10 or so psi below max to save tires.
The stated inflation on the sidewall (or placard) is to be dome when the tire is cool, as in driven less than 2 miles. Yes, they will heat and raise pressure, but that has been taken into account with the design. He is underinflating by 10 PSI, which reduces carrying capacity. May or may not be an issue, depending on actual load. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 788
Location: Tenn/Ala. | Originally written by horsin around on 2016-07-15 11:19 AM
Still debating on what ply I'd like to get. I had someone at Goodyear say he's seen too many tires come in (ST) that if it was him personally, he'd get the LT. He mentioned someone with 3 axles on a camper having problems with ST and switched to the LT and he's happy 4 years later. Not understanding weight vs ply needs. My printout from CAT scale trailer empty reads; Steer axle 4400 lb, Drive axle 8800 lb, Trailer axle 4320 lb, gross weight 17520 lb. According to the weight, what ply would I need?From what I've read about the manufactures suggestions and heard from other personal experiences, running 80 lbs would still be the best. I'm hoping switching to an LT tire will help from having the blowouts. I run 65 - 70 on the interstate so running slower might help too. I found out ST tire's speed limit is 65 mph so sometimes I was running too high a speed for the tire. A LT235/85R16 Load Range "E" is rated for 3,042# per tire at 80 PSI. I'd run them.I do sometimes wonder if the LT has a higher safety factor built in than a ST. All of these ST issues related here, may mean something.
Edited by RTSmith 2016-07-15 3:03 PM
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Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA | As was stated, the manufacturer's COLD tire pressure recommendations, take into account nominal amounts of over pressurisation that occurs when the tire heats up. This can and often exceeds 10%. The danger is when the tire is grossly under inflated or over weighted, the side wall and rim bead areas will become very hot, the casing can delaminate and the tire will blow out. Do not run any tire under inflated for the appropriate weight it is carrying. |
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Veteran
Posts: 124
Location: Calgary, Canada | This comes from the Goodyear RV Site: http://www.goodyearrvtires.com/faqs.aspx
How does ply rating relate to load range and the actual construction of a tire?
'Ply rating' and 'load range' are synonymous. Both relate to the load carrying capacity of the tire. Below is the definition of 'ply rating' as taken from the 1950-51 Tire and Rim Manual:
The term "Ply Rating" is used to identify a given tire with its maximum load when used in a specific type of service. It is an index of tire strength and does not necessarily represent the number of cord plies in the tire.
The following is the definition of 'load range' as taken from the 1973 Tire and Rim Manual:
The term "load range" with a letter (A,B,C, etc.) in tire identification is used to identify a given tire with its load and inflation limits when used in a specific type of service, as defined in headings of TRA tables.
In summary, the 'ply rating' and 'load range' are indicators of the actual load capacity of the tire. This rating has no direct relationship to the number of plies.
For proper fitment the tire must have a load capacity capable of carrying the maximum load of the vehicle in service. Both the load and speed capability must be considered in the fitment of a tire as there is a direct relationship of load and speed. All vehicles, on the highway, are required to identify the proper tire size and load requirements on the placard found in the driver's door. For alternate sizes consult with a local Goodyear tire dealer.
Is running tires at near rated or rated load a problem?
Tires are designed to run up to the load and pressure written on the tire sidewall. Unless you have actually weighed your loaded vehicle and adjusted the inflation pressure to carry that load, maintaining proper tire inflation pressure as indicated on the vehicle placard is the number one issue facing RV owners today.
Air is what carries a tire's load. If you run tires with air pressure below the placard recommendation, or below the inflation required to carry the actual vehicle load, nothing but problems will occur. Irregular wear increases, mileage goes down, fuel economy gets worse, and tires may be damaged or destroyed.
Checking your tires with a calibrated air pressure gauge weekly is strongly recommended.
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Veteran
Posts: 124
Location: Calgary, Canada | horsin around,
What size and type of trailer are you pulling? (gooseneck?, bumper pull?, floor length, width, LQ?) How many axles on your trailer?
That make and model truck are you pulling with? From your drive axle weight I would assume it is a dually?
If you provide more information, the forum members should be able to provide you some better recommendations.
Regards, 3CW
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Expert
Posts: 2953
Location: North Carolina | Before you purchase 12 or 14 ply tires check your rims and valve stems. I seem to remember that tires rated more than load range E require more than 80 PSI. That is the limit for load range E tires. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | My truck is a 2002 F250 4x4 7.3 diesel with airbags and my trailer is a Sidekick GN 21 ft with 7 ft LQ, 8ft wide with a haypod.I'm leaning towards Goodyear on truck and trailer, LT on both, 10 ply. Keeping 80 psi and I've kept 70 in the front tires of the truck. Should I be keeping 80 in them also? I had a tireman at a local dealership tell me to do that. Thanks everyone for all your comments and help. Doing lots of follow-up reading from some of the comments and learning lots. Never dreamed there was so much to learn about tires. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448
Location: Los Angeles, Ca. | Are you sure the weights you gave are correct????? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | I doubled my figures and it's what the Cat Scale CO. Has on my printout from a certified scale. It has a large haypod with a hydraulic lid and the people that owned it before me said they once had 16 bales in it. It also has a water tank that the water goes thru a ladder system. I think Gard has a Sidekick trailer and might know if he thinks it's accurate. |
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Veteran
Posts: 124
Location: Calgary, Canada | horsin around,
You indicated: Steer axle 4400 lb, Drive axle 8800 lb, Trailer axle 4320 lb, gross weight 17520 lb and your truck is a 2002 F250 4 x 4 with a 7.3 L diesel.
I looked at the 2002 Ford specs here: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/2002/fsersdcd.pdf
Not sure if you have a regular cab, super cab or crew cab or short / long wheel base as the capacities vary but here is the capacity ranges for your truck from the Ford Spec:
Front Axle Rating – GAWR = 4400 to 5200 lbs
Rear Axle Rating – GAWR = 6084 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 8800 lbs
Payload Capacity = 1479 to 1554 lbs
Wheel Rating = 3415 lbs
Based on the above ratings and the scale weights you provided, your truck is either significantly overloaded which is a major contributing factor to tire failures or you have mixed up the drive axle and trailer axle weights.
In the event that the weights you provided are correct, then your truck would be loaded as follows.
Front Axle Loading = 4400 / (4400 to 5200) = 85 to 100% front GAWR
Rear Axle Loading = 8800 / 6084 = 145% of rear GAWR
GVWR Loading = (4400 + 8800) / 8800 = 150% of GVWR
Rear Wheel Rating = 8800 / (2 x 3415) = 129% of wheel rating
I agree with “beeoerdog” that it looks like your scale weights are somehow mixed up. For a trailer of this size, it makes more sense that the trailer axles would be the 8800 lb weight.
If your rear axle is actually the 4320 lbs, your truck loading with your EMPTY trailer would look like this:
Front Axle Loading = 4400 / (4400 to 5200) = 85 to 100% front GAWR
Rear Axle Loading = 4320 / 6084 = 71% of rear GAWR
GVWR Loading = (4400 + 4320) / 8800 = 99% of GVWR
Rear Wheel Rating = 4320 / (2 x 3415) = 63% of wheel rating
Not sure how much weight you will add to your trailer when it is loaded, but in our 13 ft LQ x 3H trailer our added weight is about 5000 lbs (compared to total empty). Approx. 75 to 80 % of this will likely be added to your trailer axles and tires (depending on trailer configuration) with the remainder transferred to your truck. If this is the case, you would be borderline using a Load Range “E” (10 ply tires) as they would be close to / at / or over 100% of their loaded rating.
Worse yet, your truck would be significantly overloaded because of the added pin weight.
There have been a number of the discussions recently in the forum with the consensus that a ½ ton truck does NOT have the towing capacity to pull anything but the smallest LQ trailer.
See:
http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=207...
http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=207...
http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=206...
http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=206...
http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=205...
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you may want to have a closer look at your actual loaded weights to determine if you really want to be towing this size of a trailer with a ½ ton truck.
Regards, 3CW
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | It's a 3/4 with extended cab. Ill have it weighed again sometime. It was a young kid that weighed it and he didn't seem too on it. He told me when I got out there to weigh I could speak to them through a speaker system and when I got there to push the button, it was set up for a semi completely out of my reach from the ground. He said he didn't know that so maybe he was new. I've been pulling with this truck & trailer for 6 years, lots of miles and maybe I've just been lucky. Thànks for all the information and I'll take it all into consideration. Just want to be safe. I've had 3 car accidents (none my fault) vehicles totalled in all so safety means more to me than the average person. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | Another question on the weight, if the figures are turned around, I would still be over weight? Thanks. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | I'm going to recruit two of my nephew's for help. Take the truck driver with me go to where another recently got on with a company that deals with seed fertilizer so they have a weight station. My nephew's been a trucker for 20 years I'm sure he'll be able to help find my weights. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448
Location: Los Angeles, Ca. | https://www.fordf150.net/specs/02fsuper.php
This site shows a CGVWR of 20,000 lbs with a max of 12,500 for the trailer. I think that fifth wheel type (gooseneck) can go to 13,000. If your trailer was empty at the time of weighing, add in the weight of horses, feed, water etc. and you are close to the limit, if not over. |
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Expert
Posts: 1989
Location: South Central OK | 3CW stated the 1/2 ton truck is not enough but did use the correct weight rating for your 250 at 8800. They used the right numbers, your 250 is overloaded or very close to it. Was it loaded (full fuel tank, luggage, horses, feed, water) when it went over the scales? I loved my old 7.3L but looking at the tow ratings and knowing what I know now just about everyone overloaded those engines. Just because you can do it does not mean you should. Those older 250's are more like the current 150's in terms of tow ratings. If you look at current tow rating charts you'd be blown away at the differences...they've nearly doubled! http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/15RV%26... |
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Expert
Posts: 1989
Location: South Central OK | The 8800 is the GVWR, not the GCVWR. Upon checking the above post with the 20,000 GCVWR is correct...you should have 12,500lb of GN tow capacity. SO the number from the 3CW post should be re-run. When in doubt ask your Ford dealer! https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/2... is in an easier (for me) to read format to help you. I did let my 2002 7.3L go because it could pull a house off it's foundation but the "rating" did not support it and when the law enforcement nails you for being overloaded on the side of the road you can't win with the argument that everyone else is doing it! I had to move up to stay safely within my tow ratings and not be overloaded. |
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Veteran
Posts: 124
Location: Calgary, Canada | huntseat,
I can’t agree with your comment “When in doubt ask your Ford dealer!”.
In my humble opinion, the dealerships know very little about trailer towing other than “maximum towing capacity”, which is a very misleading number.
In most cases, the tow vehicle GVWR is exceeded well before you reach the “maximum towing capacity”. Try to get a dealer to understand that!
Regards, 3CW |
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Veteran
Posts: 124
Location: Calgary, Canada | horsin around,
Sorry for my reference to a “1/2” ton truck. Brain far* last night. My calculations were based on a “3/4” ton F-250, and NOT a “½” ton F-150.
To get the actual capacities of your truck, if you provide the name plate ratings for “Front GAWR”, “Rear GAWR” and “GVWR” from the sticker inside the driver door well, I can run the numbers based on your truck ratings.
On the “assumption” that your previous EMPTY weights are as follows:
Steer axle = 4400 lbs, Drive axle = 4320 lbs, Trailer axles = 8800 lb, Gross combined weight = 17,520 lbs
And the published capacities of your truck are as follows:
Front GAWR = 4400 to 4800 lbs, Rear GAWR = 6084 lbs, GVWR = 8800 lbs
Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight = 13,000 lbs (fifth wheel / gooseneck towing)
GCWR = 20,000 lbs (combined truck and trailer weight rating)
This results in the following loadings for your truck with an EMPTY trailer:
Truck Front Axle Loading = 4400 / 4800 or 4400 / 4400 = 92 to 100% (depending on your ACTUAL Front GAWR)
Truck Rear Axle Loading = 4320 / 6084 = 71% of rear GAWR
Truck GVW Loading = (4400 + 4320) / 8800 = 99% of GVWR (with your EMPTY trailer, you truck is almost fully loaded)
Trailer Weight Loading = not able to calculate until your truck weight is known without the trailer connected
Gross Combined Loading = 17,520 / 20,000 = 88% of GCWR (you can add up to 2480 lbs to your truck and trailer without exceeding the GCWR).
Given the above, with an empty trailer, you have essentially reached the GVWR rating of your truck (or 99% of it), due to a portion of the trailer weight being transferred to your truck through the gooseneck hitch. Any additional weight to the truck or trailer will only add increase the load on your truck and exceed the truck’s Gross Vehicle Weight Rating.
In answer to your question (and as shown above), if the figures are turned around, you are currently at 99% of your Truck GVWR with an empty trailer.
I agree that an additional trip to the weigh scale is in order to confirm your truck and trailer weights.
I hope that this helps.
PS – here is another to a similar discussion held earlier on this forum.
http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=203...
Regards, 3CW
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Expert
Posts: 1989
Location: South Central OK | I'm VERY blessed to have Ford dealers around here (and my former neighbor) that know their stuff and do a fair amount of hauling to boot.
Edited by huntseat 2016-07-17 5:16 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | My nephew wants me to drive my truck and weigh it by itself and he'll pull my trailer with his truck and weigh it. It'll have to wait until I get my new tires put on this Saturday so maybe next week to weigh. After reading everthing, ID guess I'll be over when loaded. Never dreamed my 21ft aluminum would weigh so much. IMA learning...Have my truck tires ordered but haven't decided on trailer tire. I talked with my Goodyear man and told him about my over weight concerns and asked him which would be the best tire with the weight issue. Would I be better to have a LT 10 ply or go a ST 12 or 14 ply? Both are a Goodyear tires. I've got him researching the make of both and comparing and he's to get back with me.Thankful I have new brakes and controller put on within the last 2 years. Had my shoer today suggest if I'm going on vacation this year for 2 weeks to take 2 animals. I always take one and I'm definitely taking one now. A lot of great information. I'll have to work with what I have for now until I can do something different. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 720
| It is a fact according to the truck folks, that a large portion of towing capacity rating has to do with horsepower/torque with respects to being able to maintain acceptable speeds in most conditions. Hence you have seen the newer trucks get higher ratings every year. Just my .02$, but I'd not trash an old 7.3 F-250 in favor of a new F-150, even though both are rated in the 10,000# range. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Fort Madison, Iowa | And one with only 97,000 miles... |
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Expert
Posts: 1989
Location: South Central OK | Originally written by horsey1 on 2016-07-19 12:03 PM
It is a fact according to the truck folks, that a large portion of towing capacity rating has to do with horsepower/torque with respects to being able to maintain acceptable speeds in most conditions. Hence you have seen the newer trucks get higher ratings every year. Just my .02$, but I'd not trash an old 7.3 F-250 in favor of a new F-150, even though both are rated in the 10,000# range.
No trashing and no favoring...but I do love my F350!
Edited by huntseat 2016-07-19 5:57 PM
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Good tires & food for thought on spare tire.
