Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems
diggerdoo
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2014-02-17 10:57 AM (#157526)
Subject: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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I'm looking at a 2000 Sundowner 8010 and trying to determine if it is one that would have the steel frame/aluminum body problems....  Sorry that I am bringing this up again but I got really confused reading the old threads.  My main question would be....is it only the ones with the steel frame that are going to have the powdercoat problems?  The VIN # on it is 13SLD3728Y1LA2821 and I also have a registration # of 123470004682 if that means anything.  Thank anybody who reponds for your patience with me.....

 

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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2014-02-17 1:14 PM (#157528 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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   If you look at the vin on the trailer or title the last 6 of the vin will have 2 letters. VA or ZA are steel frame and LA or AA are all aluminum. This will always be correct until 09

 Quote.. The VIN # on it is 13SLD3728Y1LA2821

Looks like you have a winner!!!

 

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diggerdoo
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2014-02-17 1:47 PM (#157531 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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YAY!!!  Thank you!  I'm in love with it and I hated to have to say good bye before I bought it. 

 

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diggerdoo
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2014-02-17 3:12 PM (#157532 - in reply to #157528)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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Originally written by retento on 2014-02-17 1:14 PM

   If you look at the vin on the trailer or title the last 6 of the vin will have 2 letters. VA or ZA are steel frame and LA or AA are all aluminum. This will always be correct until 09

 Quote.. The VIN # on it is 13SLD3728Y1LA2821

Looks like you have a winner!!!

 One more stupid paranoid question...so the fact that it says Sunlite Siesta has nothing to do with the suncoating stuff, correct? 

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Hawkeye58
Reg. Feb 2014
Posted 2014-02-17 4:36 PM (#157534 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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I have a '94 all aluminum Sundowner 3 horse LQ that does not contain any letters in the last 6 characters of the VIN. Is this frame issue a problem in their trailers going back as far as '94? I seem to recall reading somewhere that it has only been an issue in Sundowners manufactured in the late 90's and beyond. Is that correct?
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RTSmith
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2014-02-18 8:40 AM (#157550 - in reply to #157534)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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Originally written by Hawkeye58 on 2014-02-17 4:36 PM

I have a '94 all aluminum Sundowner 3 horse LQ that does not contain any letters in the last 6 characters of the VIN. Is this frame issue a problem in their trailers going back as far as '94? I seem to recall reading somewhere that it has only been an issue in Sundowners manufactured in the late 90's and beyond. Is that correct?


You are correct. Your VIN is different because there was a change in the system in '97, to what HP pointed to. The steel frame units began production in '97.
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RTSmith
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2014-02-18 8:42 AM (#157551 - in reply to #157532)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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Originally written by diggerdoo on 2014-02-17 3:12 PM

Originally written by retento on 2014-02-17 1:14 PM

   If you look at the vin on the trailer or title the last 6 of the vin will have 2 letters. VA or ZA are steel frame and LA or AA are all aluminum. This will always be correct until 09

 Quote.. The VIN # on it is 13SLD3728Y1LA2821

Looks like you have a winner!!!

 One more stupid paranoid question...so the fact that it says Sunlite Siesta has nothing to do with the suncoating stuff, correct? 

The Sunlite portion in '00 referred to the trailer model, probably a 720. The Siesta was the name of the menu-driven interior that was common in the 6-10' shortwall sizes. 

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diggerdoo
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2014-02-18 9:05 AM (#157553 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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Thank you so much!!

 

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Jkrm
Reg. Feb 2014
Posted 2014-02-22 10:46 PM (#157617 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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So o clarify the all aluminum don't have the coating the steel frames do ?
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whitewood
Reg. Jun 2009
Posted 2014-02-23 9:51 AM (#157618 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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no they don't.
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kaaron
Reg. Nov 2013
Posted 2014-02-25 11:25 AM (#157664 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems





Location: Peach State
I have a 2000 Sundowner Valuelite that had this problem. I didn't notice the rusted out main beam in the back of the trailer until my warranty had just expired. The steel had rusted all the way through. I contacted my local Sundowner dealership, where I purchased the trailer, but to no avail. My husband contacted the main office in Oklahoma and they agreed to fix it for a small fee if we could get it there. He did, and I must say that they treated him like a king, giving him a top of the line Living Quarter trailer to stay in during the days that it took them to fully disassemble the rear of my trailer and replace it with the new and revised structure. They showed him exactly what had happened, why, and what they are doing about it with the newer trailers. It was well worth the expense and trip. I can't say enough good things about the Sundowner team EXCEPT that we weren't notified when the problem was discovered. My trailer is stronger now that it was when I bought it. And to answer your question, yes, it does have a steel frame and the powdercoat was the problem.
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TJLawrence
Reg. May 2014
Posted 2014-05-12 10:34 AM (#159001 - in reply to #157528)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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So the 2009 and older models are ok or should we still look at the vin number?
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jim bob
Reg. Jan 2008
Posted 2014-05-13 10:41 AM (#159008 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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Prior to 09........yes: check the VIN #. After 09, all Sundowner models are aluminum.
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gbl
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2014-05-13 3:23 PM (#159013 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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This thread is very timely.  In 2009 we bought a custom made trailer from Sundowner that cost just shy of $100k.  We're downsizing to a smaller trailer as my wife and daughter are no longer going to compete.  My wife also doesn't feel like driving such a big rig around.  (I can't go with her all the time due to this thing called work).  In the process of selling it I looked under it to find:

1.  It's not all aluminum but there is a major steel frame.  As discussed above it has the serial notation showing it is all aluminum, but is not.

2.  Almost all of the steel frame paint has peeled off and the frame is rusting substantially. 

This isn't an older version but a newer one, is only 5 years old and has never seen salt spray in its life.  The rust is not only under the stalls but is on the rest of the frame, also. 

I called the Sundowner headquarters in Oklahoma to discuss it with them.  I thought it would be fixed under the 8 year structural warranty.  I spoke with Anthony Holder of customer service.  He said send pictures.  I did.  I then called back for two weeks before he returned my call.  He had looked at the photos and suggested I get it sandblasted and repainted.  I asked if they would cover it and he said no, the paint is warranted under the 3 year bumper to bumper but not under the structural.  I posed the question that if it rusted thru and collapsed before the 8 years were up would that be considered a structural failure?  He said no, that would be a paint failure.  Then I tried to throw some weight around and suggested it might be in his best interest to fix it as we were pretty well known within our competitions and we would spread such news around.  That didn't faze him. 

My only recourse at this time will be to go through small claims court here and sue the local Sundowner facility.

Here's what's really frustrating.  I am a structural engineer and pretty well versed in corrosion paints for both bridges and sewage treatment plants.  This kind of corrosion shouldn't happen if they spent a few dollars during fabrication.  All cars now have excellent resistance to corrosion.  Many have 12 year warranty's now.  The process is to sandblast the metal thoroughly and then hot dip galvanize it to a thick coating.  On bridges we also sandblast and use three part epoxy zinc paint.  Both work very well.  Sundowner does not sandblast and then only uses the powder paint.  That's not much better than nothing at all.  Any paint applied over steel that is not sandblasted is pretty well doomed.  Also, the paint must be excellent (usually with 3 different type coats) or the galvanizing must be thick.

Also, the aluminum decking could also be coated to almost eliminate corrosion.  In essence, those items subjected to aggressive corrosion could be coated so the limiting factor on the trailer like would be when it is crashed.

Unfortunately, this is not just a Sundowner problem (although they are in the forefront for neglegence) but is pervasive throughout the industry.  At present the industry line is to insist we clean the trailer of every ounce of urine/manure every time we use it.  Pretty impractical and not altogether possible.  I would believe that everyone looking at this post would be willing to pay another $500 if it guaranteed we didn't need to wash it every time we hauled a horse 10 miles for the life of the trailer (which could then be long).

All that said, here's my solution to my present problem.  The frame has sufficient remaining capacity and can and will be saved.  I took it to Dan's Painting here in Georgia.  They have done over 100 (what does that tell you) trailer painting/repairs.  A large proportional amount being Sundowner.  He sandblasts the frame and the aluminum decking.  For the steel frame he uses multiple coatings of the good epoxy paint.  For the aluminum decking he uses something similar to the truck bed coatings typically used except it is tougher and much, much thicker.  The deck will be completely sealed.  Any flow of urine will flow out the back end of the trailer and on to the ground and none of it will touch the deck or frame.

In regards to selling it how could I sell it in a rusty condition to someone for such an expensive price knowing what I know.  We had a lady who was willing to buy it sight unseen because she knew and trusted us.  No one could sell it as such with a conscience.  I have to fix it and let the chips fall as they may.

The point of all this is it can be protected.  The industry should get their act together on this issue.  We should insist that corrosion warranty's be given. 

If I were buying a new, very expensive trailer again I would spend the money having it protected.

My two bits....

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horsey1
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2014-05-14 9:43 AM (#159029 - in reply to #159013)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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For what it is worth- large trailers, and sidelouts of size usually have some fairly substantial steel reinforcements either riveted to the side rails of the mainframe, or even as a large ladder style structure that span from side to side under the slidout area. Yet still refereed to as all-aluminum. I guess the truth is there is no such thing.

I was looking at a Platinum 6 horse the other day (a nice "all-aluminum" trailer) and on the side that had the sideramp, there was a 30' steel beam that was riveted inside the mainframe.
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china doll
Reg. Jul 2012
Posted 2014-05-14 10:01 AM (#159030 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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After speaking with my Vet who had to pull apart a gooseneck to do an autopsy on 2 horses for insurance purposes. I will probably stick with Aluminum trailer with steel frame when I buy again.The trailer was at a stop sign on a 2 lane highway had been rear ended by a Semi that was going 55-60 MPH.This gooseneck that was at least a 2horse and possibly bigger was crushed like an accordion to a few feet in length in the box area.The aluminum did not handle the impact like steel would have and folded up.
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gbl
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2014-05-14 10:25 AM (#159031 - in reply to #159029)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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My Shadow two horse BP is all aluminum except for the front diamond shaped (stainless steel?) coversheet. Of course the axles are steel and its associated mounting plate/beam which can be unbolted. I don't mind that my Sundowner has a steel frame. The problem was insufficient/inadequate corrosion protection on it. This applies to both the aluminum deck and the steel frame.
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gbl
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2014-05-14 10:36 AM (#159032 - in reply to #159030)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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Aluminum is less fracture resistant than steel. Under normal circumstances this doesn't matter, though. On the other hand there's nothing short of a tank that could withstand a 60,000# semi doing 55+ mph. Semi's take out bridge columns without problem. Even a substantial car doing 55 mph wouldn't be phased by the skeleton of a horse trailer, steel or not.
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horsey1
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2014-05-14 4:18 PM (#159038 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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FWIW- I saw a major name brand LQ that was steel framed aluminum skin at the shop the other day, with a side of skin off. In my opinion, there wasn't enough steel there to be very worthwhile in much of an accident. So I'm not sure you are any better off that way.

As to corrosion protection, sounds like a good idea. But I'm not aware of any manufacturer that does it. Is there?
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trbomax
Reg. May 2014
Posted 2014-05-15 10:57 AM (#159050 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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We just bought a 09 Merhow AlumaLight LQ this week and the only steel I could find is the gooseneck frame and the axle channel. The axle channel and wheels are so rusty it is truly pitiful.There could not have been any kind of corrosion protection on them when new.I am going to pull the "mess" as I call it, off this winter and sandblast it,then epoxy prime and bedliner it all. The gooseneck frame is bedlinered and is in perfect shape.

Edited by trbomax 2014-05-15 11:00 AM
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gbl
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2014-05-15 12:41 PM (#159052 - in reply to #159050)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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As consumers we need to let our needs be known and spend our money accordingly. If a manufacturer comes out with a trailer that has a 10 year warranty to resist corrosion, regardless of how much my mare urinates on it, I will consider them. On the other hand if we find an aftermarket contractor/product which will warranty their corrosion work for 10 years I'd go with them. As it is right now it's up to us to determine a corrosion resistant method/application/material and have it applied, whether it be a bedliner product, rust bullet, 3 layer epoxy paint, etc. Unfortunately, most of us don't have a good handle on it and the experience of those methods that have been discussed in this website are limited. I think those of us who have expensive trailers and are really concerned about our investment, this is a big deal. The story is less relevant if we're discussing a $1500 two horse steel trailer that's 10 years old. I'm ranting....but that's my two bits worth. Back to work.

Edited by gbl 2014-05-15 12:44 PM
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trbomax
Reg. May 2014
Posted 2014-05-15 3:21 PM (#159056 - in reply to #159052)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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gbl, that is an interesting comparison to a steel trailer. I never thought about that but our other trailer is a 2005 steel 3 horse slant CornPro and it has no rust anywhere except in front from rocks being thrown on it. I am of the oppinion that the different metals involved set up a galvanic corrosion situation.Our Corn Pro has seen limited use in winter, but the Merhow was never pulled in winter, but the previous owner lived on a gravel rd. Up here the gravel roads are treated with cloride to keep them tight and dust free.This is probably worse than road salt,I do know it destroyed the aluminum and chrome on my harley in about 5 yrs.Anyway I will find out when I pull the steel axle mounting rail off.
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paintjumper
Reg. May 2014
Posted 2014-05-29 3:06 PM (#159279 - in reply to #157526)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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Dan's Painting in Ga?? What is their phone number, I'd like them to go over my Sundowner. TIA
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gbl
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2014-05-29 5:39 PM (#159283 - in reply to #159279)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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Dan's Painting and Sand BlastingRay Skinner450 Skinner DrCornelia, GA 30577Bus: (706) 778-2031Mobile: (706) 968-9232E-mail: danspainting@windstream.netThey did a very good job but weren't cheap. Their business is industrial coatings for bridges, sewage, etc. When they sandblasted the steel and aluminum they were able to verify no corrosion damage was done. They've written me a certified letter stating such. I think that's important for when we sell it so people don't think we've covered up any damage.
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paintjumper
Reg. May 2014
Posted 2014-05-30 9:51 AM (#159292 - in reply to #159283)
Subject: RE: Yet another Sundowner post about Steel/aluminum problems


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Thanks, I'm in Tifton. I'm going to head out to their place for an evaluation.
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