Hi,

I'm new to all of this, my daughter has gotten into 4-H and barrel racing, so I of course have been providing the transportation. My question is I have a 1997 GMC 1/2 ton 5.7k, 3.73 ratio with the towing package - trans cooler and a gooseneck set up.  The owners manual states 6500 lbs. max trailer weight, but this is for a bp.After doing a ton of shoping for a trailer I have found one the whole family can agree on. It is a three horse gn weight 3900. I don't really plan on hauling three horses probably two at the most. Please help.

The major issue 1/2 ton trucks have with a GN trailer is the hitch weight.    They just squat their suspension with the weight. As a guesstimate, the hitch weight will be 20% of the loaded trailer weight.  Compare that with the payload rating of the truck minus passengers and stuff weight. 

With the limitation of only local flatland trips. The truck will pull it.  The transmission and suspension wil take a beating.  Keep your tires correctly inflated for max load. 

But, I wonder why this truck has a GN hitch in it.  Did the former owner's try a GN and decide it wasn't satisfactory?  You may be headed down that same road.

So if I understand what I've been reading in past threads and here, it is better to use a bp than a gn. I had thought a gn was more stable, better weight dist. The truck was used with the gn, it has hd gas shocks and heavier leafs in the rear.

I asked this same question when I was looking for a new rig... I ended up buying a 3/4 ton and I'm glad I did.

My father had a 3H BP and a friends asked to borrow it, hauled it with a 1/2 ton - they blew the engine. It was an 1989 steel so it was on the heavy side... but they were only hauling one horse. I think 3H especially a BP is just a little too much for a 1/2 ton.

Like mentioned above, it will haul it... but you run the risk of truck problems with the strain and liability issues if something goes wrong. 99.9% chance you will have no problems that will cause an accident - but if it happens a 1/2 ton will be less likely to get you out of a hairy situation - not to say a 3/4 ton will - but you'll have a better chance or getting away with evasive manuvers. Now saying that we did haul a 4H head to head GN for years with a 1/2 ton and didn't have any problems... it's really up to you and the risks you are willing to take.

As for the "only" 35 miles... don't count on it  - things like "horse shows" (and anything horse related) have a way of getting bigger, better, more expensive and farther away LOL.

If I were you I'd go for an aluminum - or other version of light wieght 2 horse - or a bigger truck. JMO

You've gotten quite a few answers - but I bet you don't feel like you have the answer to YOUR question do you? No one here can say "yes" do it. 

Is the truck one that you have owned all along and you know its history? Or is it being sold with the trailer?  Is the trailer at a dealer or nearby location where you can test drive it?  Hook it up and see how much it "squats"?? 

How much cargo / passengers do you expect to have in the truck when towing? How much extra stuff will be in the trailer besides the horses?  Are you in a hilly/mountainous area or completely flat? Can you drive at 55 mph on the "highway" or do you have to do 70 mph to avoid trouble? These are some of the other factors to consider if you expect to load up to the maximum with horses that are top-heavy and shift.

If you are hauling just the trailer, tack and MAX 2 horses (at 1100 pounds or less) and 1 passenger and you have an extended cab truck, flat terrain, 55 mph, excellent brakes on both the truck and trailer and correctly adjusted brake controller, you could be perfectly fine.  If you have a regular cab, put 3 adults in there, plus 2 or 3 bales of hay and large coolers filled with ice and food and beverages, 30 gallons of water, etc., etc, plus 2 horses and tack, it all adds up and can create a very unsafe situation - plus put you over your gross combined weight rating so that if you had an accident, you would be at fault for being over-loaded. 

Bottom line - it's not just if the truck can move it, it's how WELL the truck can HANDLE it.  Depending on some other factors, you could be just fine ...  but without knowing all the details, it's hard to say.

Good luck.  

I have had the truck for about two years. I've not had any trouble with it. Right now I am hauling a small ( really small ) 2 horse bp. I can haul the 2 horses in it without any problems. I need to ba able to haul my thrid horse (only at fair time) about two miles,but she will not load in the small trailer and I hate to borrow someone else's trailer or bum a ride for the horse. As I stated before I can't afford another truck payment and a trailer payment besides the one I already have.

Well If I were you I'd buy the lightest 3H gooseneck I could find and know your limits... you wont be hauling through the rocky's with it :D  But stay below your ratings and you should be ok for the amount of hauling you're planning... Stay up to date on all your truck maintenence and maybe in a few years you can go for the bigger truck. - That's what I would do anyway

I did this for a year until I could afford a 1-ton.

I had a 1998 Ford F-150, 8 ft. bed with extended cab, 4X4. My max. allowable G-neck weight was, according to the owners manual, 6,900 lbs. I was a little over that at times. I had to be very careful. Experiance helps. For example, and I don't want the ladies out there to get upset with me because I will be using my wife as an example only because she was in-experianced with towing a trailer. She could not operate the 1/2 ton with the G-neck. It was to much for her. Now we have the 1-ton she has no problem. Its alot more stable.

Bottom line is you know your own limitations on what you can handle. Just be careful.

Good luck.

res1

if you dont mind my asking what exactly do you mean your wife couldnt operate the 1/2 ton but has no problem with the 1 ton?  and i coulndnt agree more with "know your limitations"

chadsalt

The lack of stability is what she had trouble with. She did not feel comfortable/safe operating the 1/2 ton with the G-neck. She never pulled a trailer with anything before, let alone something that was a little shaky.

Then again some individuals limitations are that of walking, if you know what I'm saying!

The is more confident with the 1-ton pulling the trailer, as she should be because its the proper set up.

I've had alot of experience pulling a 3h GN with a 2002 F150 (1/2 ton) Supercrew.  I'm a structural engineer and I ran all the numbers on it.  That said, it wasn't much fun....stressful.  Never broke anything and never had an accident.  We were only going to use it for short little pulls.  They got longer and longer.  Now we do about 12 weekends worth of competitions along with at least another 60 short trips each year.  We pull it now w/ a Dodge 3500 srw diesel.  Much better (except I wish it had 4wd). 

From what you've described my two bits worth is to fix the horse.  It can be done.  I know I don't know the whole story but there's been more than a few times where a few of us have nearly picked up the back end of a horse to get 'em in.  Get someone who can work with the horse and unless it's brain dead the horse WILL learn.  It's much cheaper, too.  Good luck!

Considering the truck already has the heavy duty shocks and springs, this will help keep the truck from setting too low.  All in all, if you are only going 35 miles and are traveling on flat ground you should not have any troubles.  If the truck is already has the hitch and brake controls I would hook to it and see how it handles.  I know the challenges that many parents face with getting their kids and animals to shows each year.  I am an extension agent in charge of 4-H for my county, and I am constantly seeing every configuration in transporting all types of livestock.  In most cases, the shows are mainly local and you do not have that many in a year.  I would not want to haul all three horses at once for a long period of time.  However, if you are only moving them down the road to the fairgrounds, you should make it just fine.  Hope ya'll have a good show season. 

When I said I have a 3500 Ram I also said it has srw (single rear wheels)...not a dually.  We wanted a srw because we use it for non-towing about 70% of the time.  It's a crew cab with a short bed.  Easy to use around town, absolutely no different than a 1/2 ton.  We avoided the dually's as they are a pain around the city.

We went from the supercrew to a 3500 srw for the following reasons:

1.  With some additions we made on the 3H GN we were exceeding the Supercrews GVWC from the goosenecks post loading.  Also, the trailer manufacturer's estimates of the post load on the truck without any additions was....low.

2.  The brakes on the 1/2 ton scared us badly a few times.  As with all truck/trailer setups the initial braking capacity of the truck is vital.  The 1/2 ton brakes are simply smaller.  Yes...the trailer brake system is vital, also...but you need the truck brakes to get it all going.

3.  We decided with the high mileage we were putting on the truck it was worth it to go with a diesel.  If we went with a Dodge 2500 that had a diesel we found the legal carrying capacity of those trucks (2200#) only helped the carrying capacity of the Supercrew (1840#) by a 360#.  (From those numbers you have to subtract any extras and passengers you have in the truck)  It's sad but true.  Look up the numbers.  Yes, it will pull more load with a diesel, but you take up a lot of carrying capacity with the added weight of the diesel and it's trans.  Consequently, once you decide on a diesel, and you want to be legal pulling a decent gooseneck, you end up leaping over consideration of the 3/4 ton trucks.

The Chevy towing capacity as you've listed showed 6500#.  This includes the weight of the horses, trailer, passengers in the car, tack, hay, extras on the truck, etc.  With a 3900# trailer (manufacturer's estimate...lol), two horses...say 2300#, tack+hay+water+buckets, etc (300#), passengers in truck (say 200#), you're right at the limit.

There's a point when the 1/2 ton won't work anymore.  You've got to make that call.

Good luck!

How was bigger better there if they had trouble too?  My husband drove an 18 wheeler for a few years and said even the big trucks have problems on some of those hills.  He called me one day and said he was stuck in traffic because a trailer (18 wheeler trailer)was on fire.  The guys brakes had overheated and caught fire.  So much for the load of hay he was carrying.  He said the guy probally didn't have his jake brake on. 

As long as you are within your trucks ratings, what's the problem?  I used to have a F250 and lost my brakes in San Antonio, no trailer just the truck.  Shot right through a stop light on 1604 and Potranco.  Lot's of traffic and I'm glad everyone was paying attention to my horn.  I have never been so scared.  I just kept pumping the brakes until going up the next hill slowed me down enough to put that sucker in park and jumped out.  The cop that was trying to pull me over for running the light was very understanding when he realized I couldn't stop and called a tow truck to move the truck. 

that was a good post but again at the end you appear to be putting a "saftey" spin on it.  yes a 1/2 ton will have more brake pads and tranmissions used up in the same distance compared to a 1 ton. this is not a saftey isssue, it is a maint. issue. added to that you can buy a lot of brake pads, and transmissions for that matter, compared to the inital and operatining cost of haveing a 1 ton for a daily driver.  and yes all the shows will have the big rigs, some of them are status symbols, some need them and some just want them. there is nothing wrong with any of those reasons. i have yet to see anyone debate bigger is better, only is bigger necessary to be safe. which is of course not. and its not necessary about being able to "afford" a larger truck either, i personally could have a f 550 sitting in my driveway by the end of the day if i so desired. i choose to tow with a mid suv.

i agree with some of that, but maint. is part of saftey. so youre saying drive a bigger truck so you dont have to check things as often? and what exactly do you expect to fail unexpectedly?  even if you dont do proper maint.  brakes squeal and transmissions slip, and an auto trans is a wear item anyway. and i dont see much of a price diffence between a 3/4 and 1 ton as they are generally structurally similar if not identical with the exception of a dually.

 Well for brakes - i've lost the brakes on my Totota Tercel on a mountain - it wasn't towing anything - they just over headed and would slow us down but not stop us... scariest thing ever - the hair pin turn at the bottom we were on 2 wheels... I did drive over that mountain for years afterwards  - so it can happen to any vehicle.

To the frequent brake change comment - my Jimmy was the same - both before and after I started towing with it - actually I didn't notice any worse brake wear after I started towing with it. That is more of a "north american " manufacturer issue - the big 3 tend to have these issues with all their vehicles - it's an issue with under sized brakes componants and poorly selected materials... but I could do on for days on that PITA issue. But with any vehicle you are using to tow with, no matter what the cargo, you need to do more frequent checks on the vehicle to ensure no abnormal wear. 

brakes failing is a different situation than brakes wearing quickly.  "failing" is caused by a part breaking(which an earlier post in this thread had a failure with a f250 and no trailer) or by operator error such as overloading or overheating (not refering to your tercel MBRA).

the "6500" analogy is a fine example but not entirely applicable to this situation as most people are not towing "continuously". the max weight limits set by the manuf. are still going to give "resonable" service life for that vehicle.  added to this most people considering towing with a smaller vehicle are not going to be towing enough to worry about the extra wear or they will eventually size up.

how about this analogy, say a resonable vehicle life is 150000 miles with no trailer, with trailer in tow is only 75000. now if i drive 12000 a year and only 2000 are with a trailer how will this affect the life of that vehicle? i belive some manner of math is in order. so with no trailer the truck should last 12.5 years and with the trailer in tow 2000 a year we would be looking at 10.7 years. now my math may not be perfect and some may tow more than that but the pricipal is sound.

and did you say you "have" your brakes checked? implying you cant/dont do that yourself?

and the exact combo (3h GN 1/2ton)is not realavant only the weight limits.  the op claimed a tow rating of 7500, why does it matter if its a 3h 3900 + 2 horses or a 4h at 5000 and 1 horse? it wont.

one of the reason i make such a big deal about the smaller vehicles is so the new people wont be scared off.  most of the people on this forum are experianced and highly interested in the horse world. but this is probably not a broad enough representation of the picture.  i went for a trail ride today and actually took the time to count trailers in the parking lot.  out of 20 half the trailers were BP and of the other half GN one third of those were pulled with 1/2 tons. these are the people who dont do this for a living theyre just out having fun, of course go to a show and all youll find are the bigger rigs. its just silly to say the smaller rigs are unsafe or wear out to fast.....there are just to many people doing it. JMO

crap then i wont get to talk about service managers.

been nice talking with you.

bye.

No I don't think everyone needs to drive bigger vehicles - quite the opposite actually - I do think that people should not over weight the truck - anything big enough or bigger than required is great as far as trucks go. But if you are hauling a lot I think you should at least keep up regular maintence (no matter how big your truck)- whether you do it or have it done - as long as it is done, because you are taxing your vehicle more that the average user it just makes sence to ensure everything is working well. Professional drivers need to do a safety check before every trip - any one hauling anything should do the same - even if minor (check the light work etc.)

Well but definition I don't "expect" anything to fail unexpectedly - but sure brakes would be the obvious but anything can go, some may be caught by a regular inspection (garages often offer "X" point inspections with your oil change). And some will go without warning - crap happens and you can't prepare for everything. And for the wrong turn... if you have not over exerting your truck and know how to drive in those conditions (ie shifting down) then you will be fine - if you are not prepared for the conditions you should be taking extra precautions - maybe stop frequently to rest the rig and cool the brakes would be an option in that situation - which would be similar to driving slow in snow if you are not prepared for the conditions.

Chadsalt.. I was 17 with that tercel.. "operator error" was definatly at least a factor in that situation

Correct me if I am wrong, but I haven't seen anyone post a reply saying they have the exact same setup (3h gn w/ 1/2T truck) and are happy with it - we've seen alot of posts regarding SUV/bumper pull combo's, but no 1/2T truck and 3h gn combo's.

I have a 20ft featherlite 4horse trailer w/dressing room and a 2003 ram 1500.  I have had this truck for 3 years (got it new).  After 9,000 miles of not using it for towing I had brake problems that were fixed by the dealer twice.  I started checking on the internet and found that a lot of people with the 20" tires were having this same problem.  I got rid of the 20's and got 17's and started towing with it.  I have been towing my trailer with 3 horses (8200lbs on the scale and everything under limits) with no problems.  My truck came from the dealer with a tranny cooler, oil cooler, a HUGE radiator, brake controller connections and fuse spaces for trailer connections.  I have never had a problem starting or stoping.   I just pay attention and don't speed.

been there done that.