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Question for you gaited horse people

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Reg. Oct 2006
Posted 2009-12-09 5:16 PM (#114106)
Subject: Question for you gaited horse people


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Location: Columbia, KY

We have a 6 yr old TWH mare.   nice horse, I got her for my husband but he isn't as interested in riding as I'd hoped.  partly since she isn't confortable when she gets out of her running walk gait.  then she has a huge trot- no problem for me to post but it's frustrating for Mark as a beginner to deal with.   he's taken a few lessons and sort of has the hang of posting but would rather not. 

my question-  how hard will it be to teach this mare to gait and not trot?   she's never had much formal training from what I can tell but is super on the trail.  if I keep her slow she'll mostly stay in the running walk.   she came with a huge shanked walking horse bit which she seemed to hate.  she does fine in a kimberwick.     she's barefoot with wonderful hard feet and I'm keeping her barefoot.    

when she speeds up she kinda falls into a big road trot.   should I just keep her slow until she gaits all the time?   sorry but is this a stupid question?

thanks for your help!

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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2009-12-09 6:29 PM (#114107 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people




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Location: KY

Not even remotely a stupid question......you are right on target to keep her in her gait, if she has to slow down so be it..... She needs to be ridden in gait for awhile before asking for speed...partly getting her muscles used to gaiting. The less she is allowed to trot the better she will be.

Barefoot is fine for a twh....but if her head is wrong, so will her gait....I use and recommend Brenda Imus' books, particularly "Gaits of Gold" and the video which is about 10 years old, and may be hard to find.

Also Diane Gueck's first video possibly would be useful. The mare needs to flat walk and nod well before asking for the running walk. then any time she gets rough or out of sync, then half halt her back to her proper gait.

Now having said all that, with the shorter shanks, many will nose out which will mess up the head and so on. There are many mouthpieces on 8 inch shanks that will work on the poll and curb chain. One of my mares recently came home from the trainers and I changed her over to a Waterford mouthpiece in a Robarts pinchless bit. She is doing very well (much better than the broken mouth piece aka snaffle mouth). My girl did not like the movement of the mouthpiece on the interchangeable shanks and I have found that most of our horses do better with fewer moving parts in the bit. You may want to ty the solid twh pleasure bit which is very similar to a grazing bit.

And as you know, any bit can be bad in bad hands.....another thing to try is the english style hackamore as you can get the head set without pulling on the mouth. Since your husband knows the difference in her gears, it might be good for him to work with her on keeping her in gait.....you may already be aware of these catalogues but I'll mention them anyway....and the people at both places are very nice and knowledgeable (sp?) about twh and gaited horses in general. http://www.showstoppertack.com/  http://www.nationalbridle.com/

good luck



Edited by rose 2009-12-09 6:34 PM
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IcePonyGoddess
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2009-12-09 6:37 PM (#114108 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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Walk...walk....walk!

Work her at a flat walk. A good walk is a great foundation for a running walk.

She is still young and may not have the muscles to help her give you a fast running walk.

Good for you for keeping her barefoot!

Are you sure she's trotting and not pacing?
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bbsmfg3
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-12-09 8:05 PM (#114110 - in reply to #114108)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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Location: Missouri
Me too, is she trotting or pacing. Kind of unusual for a walker to trot that fast.

How you handle her in the faster gait really depend on whether she is trotting or pacing.

You probably do not have enough of a bit on her. Not that she needs a harch bit, but rather, that's what helps her shake. If she is not shaking, she is not gaiting.

From there you need to know what the faster, rough gait is, in order to fix it.
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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2009-12-09 9:33 PM (#114111 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people




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Location: KY

Just to be sure I looked up the information in Joe Webb's book and Brenda Imus' book....Both advise what I said above and also working a trotty horse downhill with request for speed made quickly, so as to avoid the horse moving into a trot. Joe Webb recommends working in mud, but still asking quickly for speed. Once the horse starts the gait, praise it....and then build up the time gaiting slowly to allow the muscles to develop and retain the gaiting form. Brenda Imus' also recommends using a heavy saddle and even putting books in saddle bags to get more weight on the trotty horse's back.

While it is more common to find twh who pace rather than trot, there are some....and I have one.....he will get uneven in back when I speed him up without a proper warm up and he definitely does a trot not a pace.  And the weight does make a difference;  when my nephew (6'4" 260) rode my horse, the horse did not even try to trot.

You also may want to video your husband riding the horse so you all can observe the foot falls and head position. Think this should turn out to be a labor of love,   riding her many miles keeping her in gait.



Edited by rose 2009-12-09 9:43 PM
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flatlandfilly
Reg. Jun 2006
Posted 2009-12-09 10:00 PM (#114112 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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I've found Lee Ziegller's book EASY-GAITED HORSES to be very helpful. I am no expert and her descriptions of problems are clear and so are the solutions.

I have observed in pictures and videos of horses gaiting that the rider almost always has some contact with the horses mouth even when riding with a shanked, Walking horse bit. From seeing this I believe gaited horses need some degree of collection to gait. With my racking gelding if you don't keep him a bit collected he gets strung out and starts to pace.

Others suggestions were goo, too.

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acy
Reg. Oct 2006
Posted 2009-12-10 4:54 AM (#114116 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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Location: Columbia, KY

THANKS everyone for all your suggestions!  guess I should have said earlier we think she is a TWH.   may be something else mixed in there.  she's about 15.3, 1200 lbs, very stocky w/ solid legs and size 2 feet.    yes she defiately gets into a trot.   and it's a huge strung out road trot. she snaps her front legs up like a giant hackney pony.  she knows nothing about moving away from my leg or  collection- it's hilarious to ride her after riding my elegant dressage horse.  part of the problem is not enough time to ride any of them.   I'm going to try to ride her more and stick w/the  slow gaits.

another question- a lot of the gaited horses I"ve seen that are "collected" are really just pulled together by strong arms and the bit.    to me this isn't true collection and they'd just fall on their forehand if the rider let go.   can I teach her a better way? 

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acy
Reg. Oct 2006
Posted 2009-12-10 5:02 AM (#114117 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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Location: Columbia, KY

p.s.  she has a very fast, determined flat footed walk.   she does move her head a little side to side when she's doing her running walk thing but  if she gets a smidge faster all of a sudden  - boom- she's trotting.   that's where Mark has the problem since he dosn't have the experience to sense she's getting faster until it's too late. 

OK.  this is fun reading all your advise but I need to get off this thing and get  to work... 

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walkin
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2009-12-10 6:41 AM (#114119 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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Sounds like a standardbred.
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Tim
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2009-12-10 8:18 AM (#114121 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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Location: Illinois

The slight side to side action tells me she's racking and not walking.  No problem. Lots of walking horses rack.  Get her in gait, keep her in gait and slowly over time, ask for more speed.  Never ever let her trot.

And as always, lots and lots of wet blankets.

 

 

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shags
Reg. Jul 2009
Posted 2009-12-10 8:23 AM (#114122 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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If her head is going side to side she's probably pacey or at least too lateral.

My view on head shake is different from others' here - I think the gait makes the shake, the shake doesn't cause the gait. We don't relay on bits for head shake or nod on our MFT and TWH - they both came with 'traditional' bits (tom thumb and twisted wire gag) but they go better with the Imus.

 

 

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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2009-12-10 10:10 AM (#114126 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people




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Location: KY

I have used the Imus bit too but found it useful only as a transition bit. 

If the horse is moving her head side to side, then it sounds like she is performing a stepping pace.....not a bad gait at all.

If you can get a video on her.............There are many twh who do about 4 million different gaits......as far as the collection, you can use your dressage exercises on her which should improve her way of going.....

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bbsmfg3
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2009-12-10 6:44 PM (#114142 - in reply to #114126)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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Posts: 376
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Location: Missouri
It's true the head shake doesn't make the gait, but they can not do a running walk with out the head shake.

Very good chance her slow gait is not a running walk. Probably either a stepping pace or a rack.

That being the case. You can help her a great deal by asking for the increased speed while going down hill. It may also help to lower the angles on her rear foot to about 52 to 54 degrees. Don't change them from where they are, by more than a few degrees at a time. She will also need a reasonable length front toe. Minimum of 3 1/2 inches. Now that can be a real problem barefoot. Some horses can not maintain a toe that long with out a shoe.
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huntseat
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2009-12-11 7:59 AM (#114150 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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Here's another thought from gaitedhorse.net

Are Gaited horses ridden differently? 
 
The gaited horse has to lighten the fore hand and engage the hind quarters to gait. Many styles of riding and styles of saddles that are used on trotting horses encourages the riders weight to be forward, over the horses shoulders, as that is the easiest place for a trotting horse to carry the extra weight. It is exactly the opposite for a gaited horse, weight over the shoulders makes it more difficult for them to maintain gait. To assist their horses in maintaining gait, some gaited horse riders will lean back, thrusting their legs and feet forward for good measure. When a horse gaits, you will feel the withers rise, but unlike the trot, the horses back remains concave.  The more vertical, forward weight placement of trotting horse equitation is enough to impair the elevation of the withers when the horse is asked to gait. A rider needs to assume a balanced seat, with the upper body SLIGHTLY behind true vertical (1/2 inch is often enough) and the heels an equal distance in front of the vertical. 

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apricotbend
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2009-12-11 1:01 PM (#114158 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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Location: Eagle, Idaho
I have an old friend who will be 82 years old next spring. He switched to gaited horses when he was about 60. He became pretty adept at working with gaited horses he brought or raised and trained and had some very good gaited ones. He raised one a few years back from his best mare and a great gaited stud used on a cattle ranch in Idaho. After a few months of training his colt he said to me in a very disappointed tone--"this horse just hard trots and isn't gaited and I'm just going to sell him." Instead he got a very knowledgeable trainer to evaluate the horse. They ended up changing the hoof angles for a couple of shoeings and the horse took right off gaiting in a four beat gait. Then the owner just went back to regular shoeing and still had a great gaited horse.

So I believe there are a lot of fixes and some horses and riders can have good results. Sometimes good results just don't happen.

Best of luck to you in finding the right combination of tools to get the results you want.

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nd deb
Reg. Apr 2004
Posted 2010-01-06 5:16 PM (#114966 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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I teach mine on the lounge line.  takes time but what I do is push them up past their walk if they trot or pace bring them back down.    The voice command i use is run..   undersaddle if they are trotting then they are rounding their back too much.  I then lift their head up.  If they pace then they are hollowing their back so then I bring the head down.   Alot of it is push them up into gait and if they trot or pace bring them back down and start over again.  You want to ride them consistently in the running walk.  If you don't they then dont stay in it and take the easy way out which is the gait that is easier to do trot or pace. 
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ridingarocky
Reg. Aug 2008
Posted 2010-01-07 12:03 PM (#114991 - in reply to #114106)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people



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Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
My daughter's Kentucky Mountain pony would break into a HUGE trot if pushed too fast.. We solved that by slowing her down and pulling her back to a walk if she broke gait.. walk a couple of paces , then ask for a gait.  That pony was smart and would soon gait on a loose rein..for me...  my green daughter had trouble being consistent with this and consequently got jounced half to death with her pony's great big warmblood trot..
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laurie
Reg. Jun 2004
Posted 2010-01-07 3:05 PM (#114995 - in reply to #114116)
Subject: RE: Question for you gaited horse people


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Location: cedar rapids iowa
Originally written by acy on 2009-12-10 4:54 AM

THANKS everyone for all your suggestions!  guess I should have said earlier we think she is a TWH.   may be something else mixed in there.  she's about 15.3, 1200 lbs, very stocky w/ solid legs and size 2 feet.    yes she defiately gets into a trot.   and it's a huge strung out road trot. she snaps her front legs up like a giant hackney pony.  she knows nothing about moving away from my leg or  collection- it's hilarious to ride her after riding my elegant dressage horse.  part of the problem is not enough time to ride any of them.   I'm going to try to ride her more and stick w/the  slow gaits.

another question- a lot of the gaited horses I"ve seen that are "collected" are really just pulled together by strong arms and the bit.    to me this isn't true collection and they'd just fall on their forehand if the rider let go.   can I teach her a better way? 

I have 3 gaited horses.

1 gaits well with head high and nose out

1 gaits well with head lower

1 gaits all the time

Some will gait better at different speeds although typically it is harder for them to gait going slower. Maybe yours is getting strung out when going faster.

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