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Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
 MrTruck, txdad, windy Last Activity 2014-10-23 2:28 AM
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Peg D

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Subject : Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-17 3:38 PM
Post #40567

In Minn where I live anyway.  Just found this out that this has been in effect for 2 years.  You must have a Commercial Drivers License (CDL), plus health card plus a DOT inspected vehicle when using your 1 ton for sure, not too sure about any trucks under that.  But I guess it depends on your overall wieght.

If your truck and trailer are over the 26,000 lb. max - your considered a big rig now.

Oh and do you then need commercial insurance?  I don't know.  We just downsized from this, so we "escaped" this little hazard that should be looked at by those pulling these huge living quarter type trailers.

So check your gross wieght and check the laws.



[Edited by Peg D on 2006-04-17 3:44 PM]

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Reg

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-17 3:55 PM
Post #40569 - In reply to #40567

Originally written by Peg D on 2006-04-17 4:38 PM

In Minn where I live anyway. Just found this out that this has been in effect for 2 years. You must have a Commercial Drivers License (CDL), plus health card plus a DOT inspected vehicle when using your 1 ton for sure, not too sure about any trucks under that. But I guess it depends on your overall wieght.

If your truck and trailer are over the 26,000 lb. max - your considered a big rig now.

Oh and do you then need commercial insurance? I don't know. We just downsized from this, so we "escaped" this little hazard that should be looked at by those pulling these huge living quarter type trailers.

So check your gross wieght and check the laws.




Hi and Welcome.

Yes, most of us know already and very few of us are in that category.
e.g. my 1 ton with 39ft head to head trailer, horses, etc. weighed in at ONLY 15,520 lbs a couple of months ago.
It is nothing new, it is country wide.
There is some confusion in some folks mind about a) trailers that have capacity over 10,000 lbs b) What constitues "Commercial" or "Business" use.

See old topics, we've beaten it around MANY times before (-:

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Broken Bit

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-17 7:01 PM
Post #40592 - In reply to #40567

The other day a feller got stoped by the Diesel-Bear (D.O.T. officer) on his way over to pick up a load of calves off of us, and he was told that it is NOT you GVW, but your GCVWR, in other words it's the combination of the GVWR on the sticker of your rig AND the GVWR that's etched into your trailer tag.  Including how much you are plated for (better be big enough plates), so he got the fabled "green weenie" and has to get the CDL, DOT #'s, Fed. Inspection, cab card (DOT Physical), and start runnin' through the coops (scale houses).  AND if he admits to being commercial... the dreaded and feared by all who hear the mention of its name.....I.F.T.A.  ahhhhhhh!!  So, they ARE crackin' down on pickups and goosenecks, just the other day a buddy of mine was telling me that up in the Wolverine (MI.) they were nailin' goosenecks for being 102" wide on a state highway that was NOT considered a class A road, which means it's only legal for 96" wide trucks and trailers.  Y'all know that little sticker that is on the side of your wagon (usually by the jack handle) that states something about being a 102" wide trailer and possibly NOT being legal on all state funded highways.... well pay attention, cause they (D.O.T.) are!!  I was stoped by the same bear a while back with my pickup and gooseneck, but being a truck driver, I had all my ducks in a row, except my DOT #'s and Company name posted on the side of my rig, which was fixed less that a week later with magnetic signs so they could be removed when I'm traveling where they don't know me (and that I was already stoped and told to get em' on there).  Then, in that case..."I'm just a lowly farmer trying to take my stock to a local sale so I can feed my hungy family waiting for me back home with no shoes and only one pair of overalls that they must take turns wearing to school that is 20 miles away, up hill Both ways," well, y'all get the idea, PLAY DUMB!!
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brisco

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Subject : Did You Know . . .
Posted : 2006-04-18 7:28 AM
Post #40613 - In reply to #40567

I may be sorry I spoke up here, but I work for Michigan Dept of State, Sec of State (drivers licensing, vehicle registrations etc.).  I can confirm it is the GCVWR that determines whether or not a person needs a CDL.  This is a nation-wide requirement in effect for a long time.  I suspect enforcement varies regionally.

 


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hosspuller

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Subject : RE: Did You Know . . .
Posted : 2006-04-18 7:59 AM
Post #40617 - In reply to #40613

Originally written by brisco on 2006-04-18 6:28 AM

I work for Michigan Dept of State, Sec of State (drivers licensing, vehicle registrations etc.).  I can confirm it is the GCVWR that determines whether or not a person needs a CDL.  This is a nation-wide requirement in effect for a long time.  I suspect enforcement varies regionally. 

In North Carolina... It's a bit different.  It is GVWR of 26,000 # or less and exempt from CDL requirements ( haz mat, hire, etc)  The Kicker is the GVWR of the trailer has to be 10,000 or less.

 


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dblhocker

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-18 9:49 AM
Post #40624 - In reply to #40567

The DOT has been cracking down in Iowa also.........the laws aren't new, but the stringent enforcement is.  As others have stated, if the GVCW weight total is under 26,000 lbs, a CDL is not needed unless it's a commercial venture.  A few DOT guys here were making the argument here that if you are hauling your horse to a show, you are making it more valuable even if it's a hobby, and then you need a CDL anyway.  Told the wife if we get stopped with our horses, we are always coming from a trail ride.
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hav2ride

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-18 3:25 PM
Post #40637 - In reply to #40624

I'd tell them, "The horse's value increases only if he is for sale, which he isn't, so it IS a hobby!" I'd also like to addbut probably wouldn't, "Now, go play in the traffic!"
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qhgirl

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-18 4:34 PM
Post #40643 - In reply to #40567

Hello PegD (From HGS also)!!  Glad to see you aboard!

Also those that are horse haulers, they need a CDL also to travel through states.  If they notice you might be a "hauler" they will pull you over to ask for your CDL license.  Insurance increases also for that.  :)  Well that was of a few years ago!  Not sure if the same now!


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brisco

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Subject : Did You Know . . .
Posted : 2006-04-18 9:24 PM
Post #40651 - In reply to #40567

Federal law concerning CDL requires CDL if the combined GVW is 26,001 or more.  If commercial, then Michigan requires a Chauffeur license regardless of the weight - in other words, your GVWR may be only 24,000 (or even less than that) but if you are earning your living driving, a Chauffeur license is required as opposed to a normal operator's license.  Most people who require a CDL also require a chauffeur license unless exempt (government employees, consumers power and some others who drive a rig incidentally but their actual job is repairing cable or other people's rigs etc).

There aren't many of us hobbyists who need a CDL to transport our hosses. 


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brisco

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Subject : Did You Know . . .
Posted : 2006-04-18 9:36 PM
Post #40652 - In reply to #40567

I was re-reading some of your posts and I think there is some confusion between Commercial Drivers License requirements and  the license plate issue.  I can only say what I know about Michigan but here you need to purchase a GVW license plate if your truck is 8000 lb empty or less than 8000 but pulls a trailer of 10,000 lb or more, or if your combined weight will reach 24,000 or more. These plates are expensive, but pickup trucks hauling horse trailers are rarely in this category.

 

 


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Broken Bit

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-18 10:11 PM
Post #40653 - In reply to #40567

We've been arguing this very same issue for months if not years... see how confusing it is... a diesel-bear in one state will give ya one story, a diesel-bear in another state will give ya another story, state troopers from varying states will tell ya something different altogether, and the DMV branch changes constantly too!  It really truely is about impossible to get 100% legal enough to please everybody.  GRRRRRR very frustrating.  Like I said earlier, I have most everything already because of the Freightliner and Bullracks, BUT for the average person taking their partners (horses) to a show, trail ride, or farrier, they have no idea about all of this kinda stuff.  What's a person to do.......
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krys

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Subject : RE: Did You Know . . .
Posted : 2006-04-18 11:14 PM
Post #40654 - In reply to #40652

Originally written by brisco on 2006-04-18 6:36 PM

I was re-reading some of your posts and I think there is some confusion between Commercial Drivers License requirements and  the license plate issue.  I can only say what I know about Michigan but here you need to purchase a GVW license plate if your truck is 8000 lb empty or less than 8000 but pulls a trailer of 10,000 lb or more, or if your combined weight will reach 24,000 or more. These plates are expensive, but pickup trucks hauling horse trailers are rarely in this category.

If I am reading you right, the plates here in Oregon are called "permanent plates". Granted, they are more expensive to get at first (mine were $101.50), but then I don't have to pay the $54.00 every 2 years to re-register my trailer either. It went by the weight of the trailer whether you can get these plates. My trailer dealer said that I could but them on since when I am fully loaded, I will be at the minimum weight. As for a CDL here, one is not required as long as you are hauling for personal use. Neighboring states are different on the CDL. The cops are supposed to go by the laws the state where your license was issued.


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Reg

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-18 11:45 PM
Post #40657 - In reply to #40567

Regardless of weight (actual, capacity or taxed) you need a CDL if you are "Commercial".
Here's the fun one; Pizza delivery drivers - YES THEY DO !!!

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brisco

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Subject : Did You Know . . .
Posted : 2006-04-19 8:03 AM
Post #40665 - In reply to #40567

Reg, they probably need a chauffeur lic to deliver pizza, not CDL.  CDL is federal requirement - same every state and test are same too.

Trailer plates are now permanent in Michigan - no matter what.  3 weight classes: under 2500 lb is $75, 2500 to 10,000 is $200 (my trailer) over 10,000 lb is $300.  No matter what.  It is the towing vehicle that gets the GVW plate starting at 24000 clear up to 101,000 purchased for 3 mo, 6 mo, or 12 months (or any number of months).  These plates can range from $400 (something) to a couple thousand . . . )

If anyone has to have the whole story, pick up a CDL manual at your local license branch.  These books are free (in Michigan anyway) and its all in there!


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Reg

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Subject : RE: Did You Know . . .
Posted : 2006-04-19 8:55 AM
Post #40667 - In reply to #40665

CDL means just that, commercial driver's license.
If you are driving commercially you need a CDL, weights only come into the question when the trailer is rated over 10,000 and/or the total combination is rated over 26,000.
The chauffer license is only for chauffers in Mass and I'm fairl sure that it was replaced by the "Bus" license several years ago.

BTW, if you haul a gooseneck trailer that has 5,000 axles or heftier your VIN plate will probably show a GVWR over 10,000.


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dblhocker

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-19 9:11 AM
Post #40669 - In reply to #40567

Brisco, I believe you are correct.  If the weight (GVCW) is under 10,000 lbs., then a CDL is not needed, even though it's being done commercially.  Also, at least in Iowa the DOT has a website with the requirements on there, I would assume other states would as well.  It helps spell out when a CDL is needed.

If you have a living quarters trailer and a one ton pickup, many of you will be close to the 26000 lb threshhold.  Many of the newer duallys have a GVW of 11,500, and add a living quarters trailer to that with a GVW rating of 15000,  and you are over the 26000 lb figure.  Doesn't matter what your rig actually weighs, it's what the rating is. 

 


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brisco

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Subject : Did You Know . . .
Posted : 2006-04-19 7:28 PM
Post #40688 - In reply to #40567

Reg, pick up a CDL manual.  I've worked at this since CDL licensing began and still do.  It is federal and applies across the board.  Individual states may add their own requirements but the CDL is nation wide.  Someone may need a commercial license plate on their vehicle - yes - but not need a CDL drivers license. (Example:  XYZ Electrical with a cargo van.  Or a vet.  Commercial license plate - operator or chauffeur driver license)

I never said its not confusing - nor will I ever say it!  And, yes, DMV branch offices have to learn as things change.  We even make errors occassionallly!

I think enough said.  I love you guys but I get enough of this at work.


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Terri

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-19 8:27 PM
Post #40691 - In reply to #40669

I was told last year by Tx DPS that it doesn't matter what the trailer is rated for as long as you don't exceed your axel limits.  The max limits only matter if you are over them.  I'd have to get his e-mail out of the truck to get the exact wording.  He also said I'd only need a CDL for my rig (2002 ram 2500, 4horse slant gvwr 14000lbs) if the horses were a business.  
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Reg

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Subject : RE: Did You Know . . .
Posted : 2006-04-20 7:46 AM
Post #40714 - In reply to #40688

Originally written by brisco on 2006-04-19 8:28 PM

Reg, pick up a CDL manual. I've worked at this since CDL licensing began and still do. It is federal and applies across the board. Individual states may add their own requirements but the CDL is nation wide. Someone may need a commercial license plate on their vehicle - yes - but not need a CDL drivers license. (Example: XYZ Electrical with a cargo van. Or a vet. Commercial license plate - operator or chauffeur driver license)

I never said its not confusing - nor will I ever say it! And, yes, DMV branch offices have to learn as things change. We even make errors occassionallly!

I think enough said. I love you guys but I get enough of this at work.



We're off topic here - the 26,000 thang started it and I polluted the thread with pizza delivery.
I havn't had to do any of this for a couple of years, when I went through the "Vehicle manufactured in two or more stages" stuff.
The "CDL manual" basically derives from the code of federal regulations CFR and most of the transportation stuff is under CFR49 (if I recall correctly).
Somewhere in my browser's history...
http://www.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/cfrassemble.cgi?title=200549
and drill down from there if you REALLY want an insomnia cure.
NHSTA, DOT, etc. I forget where the licensing stuff is, though vaguely remember posting an excerpt from it for a similar thread a year or two ago.

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mnhunter

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-20 8:52 AM
Post #40719 - In reply to #40567

I also deal with this on a daily basis in Minnesota and will try to clear up a fer things.  A CDL is for business purposes. If you just pull for recreation you do not need any of the stuff requierd of a commercial driver.  The weights used for deciding if you need a CDL are the mfg. gvwr.  (gross vehicle weight rating) of the truck and the trailer.  For business use, if the trailer is over 10,000 lbs and the combination is over 26000 lbs you need a class A CDL.  If your combination is over 10,000 lbs you need a medical card, name and address on your vehicle and DOT #.  You may also need anual inspections depending on your weight and if cross state lines or not.  No matter what state you live in, if you cross state lines for business purpose, all federal commercial laws apply.  SO  if your horse business is a deduction on you tax return then you would need everything a semi driver needs if your weight is high enough.  I know this was a little long, but if anyone has any specific questions, i can try to answer them. 

 


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Peg D

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-20 10:53 AM
Post #40727 - In reply to #40567

I do have a CDL and can't tell you what it says on the back of the card as it is different from those without the CDL..... I will have to look at the wording.

Something about over 26,000 GVW

Now onto the next question for you, who says I am in or not in a business?  I get stopped -  I ofcourse don't have a horse related business - these are all just for fun.....


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Reg

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-20 12:17 PM
Post #40733 - In reply to #40727

Originally written by Peg D on 2006-04-20 11:53 AM

I do have a CDL and can't tell you what it says on the back of the card as it is different from those without the CDL..... I will have to look at the wording.

Something about over 26,000 GVW

Now onto the next question for you, who says I am in or not in a business? I get stopped - I ofcourse don't have a horse related business - these are all just for fun.....



A stable/barn/farm name on the side of the truck or trailer is a dead giveaway (-:
I know, a LOT of stable/barn owners haul strictly for their own pleasure and at a roadside stop it would be difficut to argue today's actual usage/intent. In the unlikely event of an accident, subsequent investigation, etc., a lot of stuff COULD come out.


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dblhocker

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-20 1:51 PM
Post #40742 - In reply to #40567

That's a good point Reg, a friend of mine was stopped and made to go across the scales.........the main reason he was stopped was because he had his website address across the back of the trailer........had to jump through hoops to prove that he wasn't a commercial vehicle.  The DOT was contending that the website proved that he was a commercial vehicle, and it took a lawyer's involvement to prove otherwise.

My point is that I would avoid having your farm/ranch/stable name or website on the side of the trailer or truck.

 


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muleskinner

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-22 6:17 PM
Post #40826 - In reply to #40719

Originally written by mnhunter on 2006-04-20 8:52 AM

I also deal with this on a daily basis in Minnesota and will try to clear up a fer things. A CDL is for business purposes.If you just pull for recreation you do not need any of the stuff requierd of a commercial driver. The weights used for deciding if you needa CDLare the mfg. gvwr. (gross vehicle weight rating) of the truck and the trailer. For business use, if the trailer is over 10,000 lbs and the combination is over 26000 lbs you need a class A CDL.If your combination is over 10,000 lbs you need a medical card, name and address on your vehicle and DOT #. You may also need anual inspections depending on your weight and if cross state lines or not. No matter what state you live in, if you cross state lines for business purpose, all federal commercial laws apply. SO if your horse business is a deduction on you tax return then you would need everythinga semi driver needs if your weight is high enough. I know this was a little long, but if anyone has any specific questions, i can try to answer them.

I've heard lots of people say that ordinay livestock are exempt frommoter carrier regulations and it supposedly says so in the MC manual.,that only the transport of race horses and show horses are regulated.is this fact or fiction??
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Zipitude

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Subject : RE: Did you know, 26,000 GVW - Needs a CDL
Posted : 2006-04-23 11:54 AM
Post #40840 - In reply to #40567

Did you know that the big LQ trailers can be registered as an RV if it has a fully self contained living quarters. RV's are exempt from commercial plates or licenses to drive or pull. Doesn't seem fair, but that's the way it is. Grandpa driving that big 45' diesel pusher motorhome and pulling his SUV doesn't need a CDL, but someone with a pickup truck and horse trailer does.
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