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Sundowner brake magnetizing

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trot-on
Reg. Dec 2009
Posted 2014-05-09 2:02 PM (#158966)
Subject: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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We have a 2004 Sundowner that has one of those "We've never seen this before" issues. It has something going on that one brake will "magnetize" and make it drag. Service has called Sundowner, and also Dexter axle and talked to the engineers, and we are still stumped. What happens is brake will drag, and then I do my walk around to check for heat in hubs, and it is about 15-20 degrees hotter than others. We have changed out all the brake unit, backing plate, new hub, had axles checked to make sure they are square. We disconnected that brake and it did run "cool" so we know the heat is caused from brake dragging, not bearing etc. Checked wires. But can't find what is magnetizing brake to make it engage. I figured I'd ask here, to see if anyone had any other thoughts or suggestions to try. I think they have changed out everything. Today they are going to swap tires/wheels around and do test drive. While it should not be an issue, we have nothing else to try
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beeoerdog
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-05-09 2:47 PM (#158968 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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Check that the other brakes are properly adjusted. If the other three are set a little loose, the fourth one has to work harder. Look at voltage at each of the brake magnets.....with trailer plugged in and lights on/off, brakes on/off and see if there is any difference.
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beeoerdog
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-05-09 4:04 PM (#158969 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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also verify that all magnets are the same and working. Check resistance thru each magnet
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trot-on
Reg. Dec 2009
Posted 2014-05-09 9:46 PM (#158970 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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I think they have done all that, but will double check. I know they changed out the magnets. We had to replace a backing plate because of it engaging that brake, and then found it still running hot on next trip which made us investigate to find it magnetizing. Thankfully it had not ruined the new backing plate....yet.
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beeoerdog
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-05-09 11:11 PM (#158971 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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the magnet will only be a magnet is there is voltage applied to it. Has anyone worked on the wiring after it left the factory?....maybe they tied a light circuit to that brake line? All the brakes should be tied to one circuit. See if any voltage is applied to that brake when the controller is off but the lights are on. There are different magnet strengths.... that is why you should check that all are the same. Dexter has a lot of info on their brakes online. I assume all bearings are greased, and the races are good?
Also check your breakaway switch/battery to make sure that it is not energizing that magnet.
A bad connection may also be preventing equal voltage and amperage from getting to the other brakes......gets back to checking voltage at all four magnets....happy hunting and let us know what you find.
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beeoerdog
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-05-09 11:22 PM (#158972 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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Another thought.....maybe the wire is undersized leading to a lower voltage at the other brake magnets which would make them work not as hard as the one heating up......or there is a bad connection causing the same. It might also be the controller not being able to supply enough current. Try hooking up to a different vehicle and see if there is any change.
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horsey1
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2014-05-10 8:02 AM (#158974 - in reply to #158972)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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Originally written by beeoerdog on 2014-05-09 11:22 PM

Another thought.....maybe the wire is undersized leading to a lower voltage at the other brake magnets which would make them work not as hard as the one heating up......or there is a bad connection causing the same. It might also be the controller not being able to supply enough current. Try hooking up to a different vehicle and see if there is any change.


THis sounds as likely as 1 heating up- that there is actually 1 working as it should. In addition to checking power wiring TO magnets, check grounds. Current must have a complete path to follow, and faulty grounds weaken many trailer brakes.
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trot-on
Reg. Dec 2009
Posted 2014-05-10 10:38 AM (#158978 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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It has done it with multiple trucks. I'm passing along the suggestions above. I hate it when they say "We have never seen this before", and its MY trailer. I know it could very well be something simple that has been over looked. Like wanting to Xray a horses leg to see why he is lame, before we pick his feet for a rock
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beeoerdog
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-05-10 11:16 AM (#158979 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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Has anyone worked on the brakes other than you? previous owner? If the wiring connections were changed ( like putting that one magnet in series rather than in parallel) that would greatly affect performance. Again, easiest check is to put voltmeter at each magnet with brake controller at maximum. All four readings should be the same. Sounds like you have ruled out the controller as the problem. Good Luck
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beeoerdog
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-05-10 11:20 AM (#158980 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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Also, just to make sure, have you manually adjusted each brake by moving the star wheel inside the brake assembly?
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beeoerdog
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-05-10 11:23 AM (#158981 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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sorry, one more thought...have you inspected other three brakes for grease contamination from failed seals?
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trot-on
Reg. Dec 2009
Posted 2014-05-10 11:22 PM (#158989 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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Its at a trailer service department, that I do trust.(where I bought trailer) They called Sundowner to see if the trailer ever had any warranty repair that was noted. (It is a 2004), and did check to see if they had ever worked on it with previous owner. Will go by Monday and give them the thoughts and suggestions. Thanks so much for taking time to share thoughts!!
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gmmosley
Reg. Sep 2014
Posted 2014-09-22 9:01 PM (#160883 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


Member


Posts: 8

Location: Pennsyltucky

Hello - we are experiencing the same issue with a brand new 2014 Adams LQ. Was your issue ever resolved? Has anyone else experienced their electronic brakes locking intermittently? 

It started off with the trailer pulling hard to the left while braking during descents. The dealer told us it was because our digital brake box was sending too much amperage to the brakes and recommended an analog type. He also replaced the back plates at that time. Although we were sketical, we decided to install an analog type controller. 

Next trip, 4 hours into the haul our brakes started locking up. Shook the trailer so hard the hub cap flew off. Continued until we got to our destination (intermittently). On way home, got 4.5 hours into trip and again they started to lock up.

Dealer is now saying we are setting the brake controller too high and I am calling B.S.!

All information is very much appreciated

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beeoerdog
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-09-22 9:57 PM (#160884 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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Location: Los Angeles, Ca.
sounds like a brake problem, not your controller. I would pull off each wheel and inspect the brake assemblys for loose bolts. Should not pull to one side or shake. Verify that all brakes are working.....listen for a hum at each wheel or jack up trailer and spin tires and apply brakes. Also, after driving and braking, put your hand on each hub and see if all hubs are same temp.=/-. You could have a broken wire preventing all brakes from working.. Your dealer should be doing this, not you. Remind him you are posting results of his service on Trailer World forum.
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2014-09-22 11:03 PM (#160885 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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Both of these issues sound like a mechanical problem, not an electrical. The brake magnet cannot be energised unless a voltage is applied to it. If only one brake is working or only one side, the wiring is wrong. If the wiring is correct, then the mechanical brake parts should be inspected.

The first thing to establish is which brakes are working and are they operating correctly? This is easy to establish by watching the tires when the trailer's brakes are applied on a gravel surface. They can be set to lock up with the over ride under this condition. If some are and another isn't, the first thing to check for is the correct star adjustment, if they are manually adjusted. After evenly setting them all, try the lock up procedure again and see if there is any difference in the operation. You may now be able to have all four opperating the same.

If a brake is too tight, or the linkage is worn, or a spring retainer is broken, the brake shoe can contact the drum as things heat up during the travels. This can cause a brake to drag and produce more heat within the drum than the rest of the brakes.

If your drag test results in an inoperative brake, which isn't the problem suggested by the OP, then the drum will have to be removed to inspect the brake components and trouble shooting the wiring.

An over tightened or burnt wheel bearing can also cause drag and excessive heat. We purchased a new trailer and within a couple hundred miles, two wheel spindles failed. The bearings were found to be over torqued and installed dry on the same side. Apparently some worker's lunch was waiting for him at the factory.

Any certified mechanic should easily be able to inspect and repair, the electrical bake system used on these trailers. The circuits are simple, the parts are few, easily inspected and replaced. You don't need a dealer who has never seen this problem, only a good mechanic willing to take a look.

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gmmosley
Reg. Sep 2014
Posted 2014-09-23 8:06 PM (#160900 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


Member


Posts: 8

Location: Pennsyltucky

Thank you both for your input. As you can imagine, I am beyond frustrated with this problem. Both situations I outlined could have ended with serious consequences to myself, my horses and to fellow travelers sharing the road.

We will continue to dig to find the cause, most likely with a mechanic now rather than the dealer and will post back with the outcome! 

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trot-on
Reg. Dec 2009
Posted 2014-09-24 10:38 PM (#160912 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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Location: Texas
We did finally replace the controller, as it was bad. But I do not think that was the bottom line issue. I still get one of the hubs running hotter than others, and I seem to have trouble getting the controller set high enough to feel like its doing the job. But we never did find an exact reason for our issues. Thankfully ours never grabbed hard. Our next step is to consider a re-wire to all the brakes, to make sure we do not have a short.
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gmmosley
Reg. Sep 2014
Posted 2014-09-27 9:55 AM (#160937 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


Member


Posts: 8

Location: Pennsyltucky

Thanks for the follow up Trot-on.  Ours goes into the shop on Monday. Hoping they find something because not knowing if/when it will happen again is enough to keep me from using it

I will post what our outcome is as soon as we know.

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gmmosley
Reg. Sep 2014
Posted 2014-10-04 6:26 AM (#161041 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


Member


Posts: 8

Location: Pennsyltucky

Outcome of our last visit to the RV shop is that it is not the trailer but rather something in the rear antilock brakes on our truck. The are grabbing too hard for some reason.  We do feel that this really a possibility so the truck is at our mechanic.  My fingers are crossed!

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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2014-10-04 9:51 AM (#161044 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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An ABS interaction will not affect only one of the trailer's four brakes. If they are all electrically wired correctly, are mechanically sound and adjusted, each one will exhibit the same electrical reaction as provided by the controller. One cannot be magnetised any longer than the others. Any one that is not working correctly will be cooler than the others.

An ABS or controller problem will affect each of the brakes at the same time.

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beeoerdog
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-10-06 1:20 PM (#161063 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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Before driving some dealer mechanic crazy, try towing trailer with a different vehicle. If no change, then it is definitely the trailer brakes.
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gmmosley
Reg. Sep 2014
Posted 2014-10-13 8:25 PM (#161138 - in reply to #161063)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


Member


Posts: 8

Location: Pennsyltucky

Agreed Beeoerdog but unfortunately most people don't jump at the chance to hand over their trucks for 4+ hours which is how long it takes for the problem to present itself.

 

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gmmosley
Reg. Sep 2014
Posted 2014-10-13 8:28 PM (#161139 - in reply to #161044)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


Member


Posts: 8

Location: Pennsyltucky

Gard, I think I must have been unclear.  We thought the issue may have been the truck's rear ABS engaging (not trailer) causing the violent shaking. However, our mechanic has thoroughly inspected the entire braking system and does not see any indication of any brake issues. Back to square 1.

 

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PaulChristenson
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2014-10-14 11:38 PM (#161157 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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Is your trailer level? Or are you running more on the rear axle?
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beeoerdog
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-10-15 12:52 PM (#161162 - in reply to #158966)
Subject: RE: Sundowner brake magnetizing


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Posts: 448
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Location: Los Angeles, Ca.
Just a thought....do you drive with your foot resting on the brake pedal? Also, any problem should not take 4 hours to show up. Drive around for an hour then check each wheel for temp variation...pull the one that is different and inspect. If the problem is presenting itself only while going downhill, perhaps your braking technique needs to change.
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