Posted 2006-01-01 2:23 AM (#34656 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
Well I won't recomend a brand but I will say BEWARE ofthe Ford 6.0s. 540% HIGHER warranty claims then the Duramax or Dodge Diesel.Its been eating Fords lunch in buybacks and warranty.Granted the 05s have been better but still a headache.Trade in value on the 03/04 Ford diesels is LOW even at the dealer where purchased.Do your HOMEWORK before purchase.LOTS of sites like this one devoted to diesels.I'm sure some won't want to read or hear this but its the facts.Autoweek just did a article on the 6.0 and it wasn't nice. www.TheDieselStop.com
Posted 2006-01-01 10:03 AM (#34662 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Regular
Posts: 90 Location: louisiana
Just went looking to trade and many friends have bought Ford and Chevy. What I have heard:
1. Inside-Ford more room than NEW Chevys by a mile-crew and extended cab included
2.Ford 6.0 not near what Duramax is and problems noted with 6.0. A buddy traded 2001 Ford in on 2004 model and he says he wishes he had the 2001. BUT older Fords still have more power than the new Chevys, from what I am told
3.Older Fords much more power than Chevy(new and old) but very heavy- dont go into mud, but older Chevy better around town/riding truck(Ford seats are very hard but more support on long ride)
I have both a 2002 Ford with 7. diesal(15 miles to gallon) and 1996 Chevy with detroit diesal(19 miles to gallon) and like both. But use Ford for pulling and use Chevy for riding, even though Chevy pulled my 24 foot horse trailer for years with NO PROBLEMS whatsoever.
Just for note-I decided to keep my two older trucks for a while longer. I want the Ford roominess inside with the Duramax engine. Think I could get a conversion???? Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!!!!
Posted 2006-01-03 7:14 AM (#34774 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Elite Veteran
Posts: 634 Location: Tipton, IN
Ok, I'll take a stab here for fun. Both Ford and Chevy have their good and bad points. As far as engines in NEW trucks, the Duramax seems healthier than the Navistar 6.0 PSD. In older, pre-2004 7.3L PSD Fords there is no comparisson in my opinion, Ford Wins. On to suspension, and this is the fun one. Since 1997 Ford has used a solid front axle, versus Chevys twin I-beam front suspension. Makes the Chevy ride nicer like a car, but has it's drawbacks. First, there are more moving parts and bushings to be replaced in the Chevy. Second, you lose ground clearance when the Chevy front end compresses, whereas with a straight solid axle on the Ford you maintain the same ground clearance whether the shocks are bottomed out or at normal rest position. Neither Ford nor Chevy are perfect, and both are worth looking at. As a Ford guy I just can't bring myself to wear a bowtie, but if they pulled the Chevy emblems and put Isuzu on it I MIGHT drive one occasionally.
Posted 2006-01-03 8:36 AM (#34785 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
I think Ford has done away with the straight front axel a while back.You need to do some reading about the 6.0s.www.TheDieselStop.com and other places.540 percent more warranty claims then Dodge or Chevy!
Posted 2006-01-03 9:26 AM (#34793 - in reply to #34774) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Expert
Posts: 2953 Location: North Carolina
Originally written by efaubert1 on 2006-01-03 6:14 AM
Both Ford and Chevy have their good and bad points.
Since 1997 Ford has used a solid front axle, versus Chevys twin I-beam front suspension.
I agree with the first statement ...
But as a Chevy owner, For two wheel drive vehicles only... Twin I beam suspension was Ford's. trade marked name. My 2001 Chevy has a front torsion bar suspension. Each front wheel is held in place by "A" arms and supported by a torsion rod. both of these designs allows for an independant front suspension.
Posted 2006-01-03 2:31 PM (#34821 - in reply to #34656) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Member
Posts: 18
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Originally written by hounddog on 2006-01-01 12:23 AM
Well I won't recomend a brand but I will say BEWARE ofthe Ford 6.0s. 540% HIGHER warranty claims then the Duramax or Dodge Diesel.Its been eating Fords lunch in buybacks and warranty.Granted the 05s have been better but still a headache.Trade in value on the 03/04 Ford diesels is LOW even at the dealer where purchased.Do your HOMEWORK before purchase.LOTS of sites like this one devoted to diesels.I'm sure some won't want to read or hear this but its the facts.Autoweek just did a article on the 6.0 and it wasn't nice. http://www.thedieselstop.com/
Houndog,
I've tried googling that 540% figure and can't find it anywhere. Would you mind letting me know what the source is?
Also, the original post was about a new truck, not an 03/04, which did have some problems as it was the first year of some big changes and which I wouldn't have purchased either.
Also, thedieselstop.com is a site dedicated to Ford diesels, so you are not going to find posts about the other brands and thier problems. And as they say themselves, that's where to go to get answers if you are having a problem with your Ford diesel, therefore by definition the people who are posting there have problems. The ones with no problems have nothing to post about :-)
So, is the 05/06 Ford a lemon compared to the Chevy or Dodge? Could be, but I sure didn't find any actual objective evidence to support that. All I know is that for our purposes it suited us better than the other two, and so far has been a dream to own.
Would I have been just as happy with one of the other two, well probably with the Dodge but not the Chevy because of the rough ride, though I seem to be the only one here who thinks it was rougher, maybe it's an 06 thing, or maybe it was just bad test driving luck!
Posted 2006-01-03 4:24 PM (#34827 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
it wasnt SOME problems.It was a LOT of problems with 1 or 2 out 10 being bought back.There are owners posting that have had THREE buy backs of the 6.0s. Auto week just did a report on amount of warranty and warranty moneys spent on the 6.0s. the 05 and 06s have been better BUT still a HIGH amount of issues as well as some that have NOT been cured in the entire time its been produced.Read the THEDIESELSTOP.COM forums and some of the archives for the last few months.Do a SEARCH there for percentages.The AUTO WEEK article was fairly recent.the FORD forums have TRIED to be gentle on THEMSELVES with some diehard Ford owners FINALLY blowing up in anger etc.Its a PIG and and Poke since it came out with the CONSUMER taking the blount of the hurt.The 6.0 ALSO has NO LOW END GRUNT which has been a issue for the manual shift guys.the ENGINE screams at mid to higher RPM but won't pull down low like a 7.3 or a Cummin.Most of the trucks are automatics cause the Ford Torqueshift (5 speed)SPLITS first and 2nd gear to get the load moving.Not MY kind of diesel and apprently not for a lot of ranchers and farmers.Lots of compliants about this issue.Do some JD Powers searchs as well as auto week and read the Ford forums andarchives.The INFO is out there.
Posted 2006-01-03 4:44 PM (#34828 - in reply to #34793) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by hosspuller on 2006-01-03 9:26 AM
Originally written by efaubert1 on 2006-01-03 6:14 AM
Both Ford and Chevy have their good and bad points.
Since 1997 Ford has used a solid front axle, versus Chevys twin I-beam front suspension.
I agree with the first statement ...
But as a Chevy owner, For two wheel drive vehicles only... Twin I beam suspension was Ford's. trade marked name. My 2001 Chevy has a front torsion bar suspension. Each front wheel is held in place by "A" arms and supported by a torsion rod. both of these designs allows for an independant front suspension.
IFS on 4WD GM since '87 model year.
Torsion bars on my 3500.
"Twin I-beam" has been Ford's catch-mumble since way back - before m-soft invented the color blue.
Posted 2006-01-04 6:40 AM (#34848 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Elite Veteran
Posts: 634 Location: Tipton, IN
Hounddog,
You are misinformed my friend, Ford has not done away witht the solid axle front end, they went to coil springs instead of leaf springs for the front suspension. As for the words, yes "twin I-beam" was Fords catch phrase. As for Chevy, twin A-arms is theirs I guess, and yes I know the difference in the way they work. Anyway you cut it, the ground clearance is lost in any independent suspension truck when the suspension is compressed, or bottomed out. And Hounddog, Fords 6.0 in the older 03/04's did have signifigant problems, but not the newer 05/06's. I will agree that the 6.0 lacks compared to the 7.3PSD. Which by the way, I own. And as for the "reading up" on the front axle, I don't need to, I was under an 05 last week changing oil for the wifes uncle, and his front axle looks just like mine, solid.
Posted 2006-01-04 8:14 AM (#34854 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
Keep reading about the 6.0.The 05/06 are better but still lots of issues.Some of the same still haunting it.Much more trouble some then Dodge or DuraMax.Much more.TheAuto Week article addresed this.Just keep reading and searching,you'll see.
Also note that the 6.0 will be a NEW and IMPROVED 6.4.For 07 and that the DEBUT date of the NEW and improved has been changed and moved forward.LOTS of folkes are curious to why!
Posted 2006-01-04 1:10 PM (#34876 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Member
Posts: 18
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Hounddog,
You keep telling us about how the Ford 05/06 diesels are plagued with problems and if we would just search for the objective articles and statistics, including a recent article in Autoweek, we will find them. Well, I've searched and I can't find em. I found one forum entry refering to an Autoweek article about 03/04's, which everyone admits had problems, but nothing about 05/06's being more problematical than Dodge or Chevy.
You say you have personally seen statistics and articles by respected sources that the Ford diesel 05/06's have more problems than the dodge and chevy. If that's true, please don't just tell us to keep searching, tell us where these sources you are quoting are located, since you must know because you said you saw them.
Posted 2006-01-04 1:28 PM (#34879 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
Just do some homework and READ.Ford forums and J.D.Powers.The 6.0 is NOT a Cummins or even a DMax engine in the ease of ownership area.I don't know wherethe AutoWeek article is at the moment.It hit all the Diesel truck forums (Fords also)3 or 4 weeks ago with NEW stats on warranty dollars,recalls and Tsb's issued by manufactures in the past year.The Ford 6.0 was hands down MORE of EVERYTHING issued by 3 and 4 fold.Dodge was the least,G.M.next with a few and Ford was in the high numbers.Just letting non informed consumers know what anyone that reads or messes with the late model diesel stuff already knows.
Posted 2006-01-04 2:58 PM (#34887 - in reply to #34883) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Member
Posts: 18
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Thanks xyzer,
I looked those up and three of the five were from forum posts by individuals about problems with the 03/04's. The other two were the same article about a recall for a fix of 04/05's that might have a stalling problem.
By the way, if you google "problems" with "duramax" or "cummins" you'll get a lot of hits too :-)
Keep in mind too, when looking for problems, that there are twice as many Fords sold as Chevy/GMC or Dodge, so that reports of Ford problems are amplified.
I'm not saying that Ford is a wonder product, just that I haven't found any objective evidence that the current model has any more problems than those of the other two makers. And if someone is going to insist that it does, citing statistics and articles they say exist, they should be able to back it up by telling us where to find those statistics and articles (that's directed at hounddog, not you!)
OK, now I'm really off this subject. I have to get back to my life :-)
Posted 2006-01-04 3:13 PM (#34889 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 366 Location: Albany, Oregon
anytime wayside...I didn't take much time reading what they pertained to, and you are right about the search on the others....they all have issues! I have delt with Ford on a warrenty issue years ago and they arn't going to get me again....It is Dodge and GM's turn I guess.
Posted 2006-01-04 3:32 PM (#34890 - in reply to #34889) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Veteran
Posts: 238 Location: West Coast
They all have their problems, as my diesel mechanic says "If you trade one truck brand for another, you are just trading one set of issues for a whole new set of issues, and some are worse than others".
For instance, the Duramax's have serious fuel injection problems. A few years back (98 & 99 I believe) Dodge had a problem with cracked blocks in Dodge Rams with the cummins 53 block. As for the Ford 6.0, from everything I've read, it has had a larger than usual number of warranty problems. The Ford 7.3 has been a good truck, but it has a problem with the CPS. The good new is that it's inexpensive and easy to fix.
Posted 2006-01-04 5:21 PM (#34895 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
Those listed were early on.It got worse.Much worse.Just read TheDieseStop.com and its archives.The autoweek thread has been locked due to copyright laws with links as well.I read Diesel Forums on many sites and have for about 5 years daily.Sure all manufactures have issues.Ford and the 6.0 supasses just issues.Get your head out of the sand. red the Dodge forums and Chevy.NO where NEAR the issues of the 6.0s.In fact MORE discussions on those about Mods and how many miles etc.then issues.
Posted 2006-01-04 6:26 PM (#34902 - in reply to #34895) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1011 Location: Oregon
IMO, the 06's haven't been out long enough to really say there are more problems. Give it a year or 2 before you decide that. And with the 05's, give it another year. I'm not just talking about Ford, but with any make. If the problem's with the 04's make you believe that they are not the truck for you, than that is your opinion. There is always be someone else down the road that will think it is the right truck for them. I personally don't really care about the make of my truck. It just has to be comfortable for ME and fit MY needs. Granted, seeing what your friends have had and the good and bad things that has happened to them may influence your decision. It all comes down to your decision and what you want, like and need. Im not saying that no one should not post their opinion of what they like or what has happened to them with a particular make, just some may be important and some may not. Some you would weigh heavier and others you would take with a grain of salt.
Posted 2006-01-04 8:31 PM (#34912 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Expert
Posts: 2453 Location: Northern Utah
I had an 88 Chevy, had so many problems I traded it within a year for a 89 GMC. Mainly because I couldn't get the parts to fix the problems. Same problems persisted in the 89 GMC, So I started buying Fords.
I have a 2003 6.0L. Built the 1st week of production. Yes it had some warranty issues. ICP, VGT, EGB, EGR, none of these left me stranded. I schedule appointments and took them in at my leisure. Ford has stood behind it and replaced each. Usually while I had the truck in for an oil change. Which the dealer has done several for free as a perk for putting up with warranty problems.
What more can a person ask of any Manufacture than to step up and make things right.
Yes my 6.0L lacks a little on the low end when I'm starting out from a light with 10,000-12,000lb trailer behind me. Once I hit 1500-1600 rpm, there is no question it's a better engine than my 2000 7.3L. I've learned to feather the throttle a little and get along just fine. It has more low end power than my stock 7.3L had, but not as much as my chipped 7.3L That's the nice thing about my 6.0L, it is pure stock, I've seen no need to spend a lot of money adding chips, exhaust and guages to help it's performance.
To hounddogs defense, I did read the Autoweek article several weeks ago. Ford has admited that the 6.0L has had more warranty claims than Ford expected or would like to see. Most of the warranty claims were with 03-04 trucks. They are coming out with the 6.4L to meet the 2007 Emissions which require Ultra low sulfer fuel. At the same time Ford bumped the engine displacement in hopes of improving the low end grunt that owners of the 6.0L have complained about.
Bottom line, all manufactures have some problems, They have yet to build the perfect truck. My Infinite has seen the dealer more in it's first year than my F350 every did. My neighbors Audi is a black hole of expenses. It's how they treat you that really makes the difference.
Posted 2006-01-05 4:22 PM (#34977 - in reply to #34912) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Regular
Posts: 50 Location: White Lake, MI
I read the AutoWeek article and did not think it was very well written. It focused mostly on one couple's problems with their 6.0 Powerstroke. There have been more problems with the 6.0 than with the 7.3's, mostly caused by emmissions required equipment. I do not know any of the exact numbers, but I certainly do not believe 1 out of 10 have been bought back. I know at of at least 30 6.0 owners and none of them have been bought back. I spoke the the service advisor at my dealer, which sells a lot of diesels, and they have only had two 6.0's that required the head gaskets replaced (no buy backs). Many of the owners on thedieselstop.com that are having problems are running heavily modded 6.0's. I do not recall seeing the 540% number, but I would expect a larger number since last I read Ford sold more diesels the last few years than both GMC and Dodge combined.
Posted 2006-01-05 5:17 PM (#34979 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
Hey guys the 6.0 not mooded has been do do for Ford.I belive easy 1 in 10 brought back.There are posts from owners that have had 2 and 3 brought back before saying NO and getting a refund.Do your homework.I have nothing againt Ford.I have issues with ANY product that is shoved down the comsumers throats with huge issues.I had a service manager at a Ford tell me in 04 that the 6.0 was costing ford 1 million bucks a day in warranty repairs and buybacks.He was told that by his DSM.These sitesw are also the ONLY folkes that know and use a computer.Lots don't.Now the discussions on USED or trying to trade in ANY 6.0.The OTHER dealers don't want them and Ford stores are low balling them also.
Posted 2006-01-05 6:10 PM (#34981 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Expert
Posts: 2453 Location: Northern Utah
Hound dog you are quoting facts you can't back up. 1 in 10 trucks being bought back. Come on you can't believe that. I know a lot of 2003-2004 F350 owners and not one has had a buyback. In fact other than people on The Deiselstop, I know nobody who has had a buyback.
As far as value, go check any of the used car values sites. i.e Kelly Blue Book, NADA, Edmunds etc. I checked all three and computed an average difference. A 2003 with a 6.0 sells for on average $3200 more than a 2002 with a 7.3L with the same mileage and options. The 2003 trucks didn't cost $3200 more than the 2002 models. In fact my 2003 truck cost me $3000 more than my 2000 truck, Both with exactly the same options. So the 2003 trucks with a 6.0L has actually RETAINED better resale as a percentage of original sales price than a 2002 truck with 7.3L engine. I suggest that the lower resale of trucks today is due to high diesel cost and not whether it has a 6.0L engine.
You've got a chip on your shoulder about Ford and just want to argue with people about it. I'm done with this thread.
Posted 2006-01-05 8:52 PM (#34990 - in reply to #34981) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Veteran
Posts: 238 Location: West Coast
Originally written by Painted Horse on 2006-01-05 4:10 PM
Hound dog you are quoting facts you can't back up. 1 in 10 trucks being bought back. Come on you can't believe that. I know a lot of 2003-2004 F350 owners and not one has had a buyback. In fact other than people on The Deiselstop, I know nobody who has had a buyback. As far as value, go check any of the used car values sites. i.e Kelly Blue Book, NADA, Edmunds etc. I checked all three and computed an average difference. A 2003 with a 6.0 sells for on average $3200 more than a 2002 with a 7.3L with the same mileage and options. The 2003 trucks didn't cost $3200 more than the 2002 models. In fact my 2003 truck cost me $3000 more than my 2000 truck, Both with exactly the same options. So the 2003 trucks with a 6.0L has actually RETAINED better resale as a percentage of original sales price than a 2002 truck with 7.3L engine. I suggest that the lower resale of trucks today is due to high diesel cost and not whether it has a 6.0L engine. You've got a chip on your shoulder about Ford and just want to argue with people about it. I'm done with this thread.
Painted Horse well said, thank you!
I too know a lot of people with Ford 6.0 trucks and not one of them have had a buyback or even enough problems to warrant one.
Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
