Posted 2006-01-03 1:25 PM (#34814 - in reply to #34504) Subject: RE: 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton pulling alum 3 horse GN
Veteran
Posts: 127 Location: Fort Worth, Texas
OK, being a 1/2 ton owner, I felt compelled to put in my 2 cents worth. There are several things that would be helpful to know before giving you a definite opinion on your question. First, what kind of engine (towing capacity) are you considering in a truck? How often will you be towing a trailer and for what distances? How much does your trailer weigh? Will you only be pulling your horse and pony or will you eventually want to pull 2 full horses or 3 horses? What type of terrain will you be pulling the trailer on?
I have a 1/2 ton Chevy Silverado with a towing capacity of about 8,100 lbs. I own a 2H GN with dressing room (which could be converted to LQ) and a 4' SW on the Dressing room. Trailer empty weighs 3,500 lbs. I generally haul 1 horse but on occasion will haul 2 (figure 2,300 lbs. for the 2 horses and another 300 lbs. for tack and misc.). Fully loaded I will haul about 6,100 lbs which is completely within the specs of my vehicle. Can I feel the trailer when I'm hauling.......of course. Does my truck struggle to make it up hills.....no. Now, I haul maybe 2 times a month and travel distances of between 15 and 50 miles. My truck is being used as my primary means of transportation about 95% of the time and the 5% that I need it to haul, it's for short distances. Someone suggested going to an event and see how many 1/2 ton trucks you see in the parking lot. Well, not all of us show and use our trucks in that capacity, so not all of us need 3/4 tons or diesels. If I were showing or hauling longer distances, I too would probably get a 3/4 ton truck but for what I am needing it for, a 1/2 ton is just fine. By the way, I get 22 MPG on my little 1/2 ton......hard to justify getting something bigger that gets 15 MPG or less for what I am using it for.
You need to look at the whole picture before deciding what vehicle will fit your needs the best. If you are borderline, it's always best to err on the side of caution. If you plan on adding a horse in the near future, go ahead and plan for that now when you get a truck, but bigger isn't always better for everyone.
Posted 2006-01-03 5:16 PM (#34830 - in reply to #34814) Subject: RE: 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton pulling alum 3 horse GN
Regular
Posts: 59 Location: Colorado
The rating that will most often be exceeded first with a Gooseneck trailer will be the "Gross Vehicle Weight Rating" GVWR of the truck.
This is how much total weight is on axles of the truck. This includes: The truck, passengers, cargo in the bed, and most importantly the hitch weight of the trailer!
Most half ton trucks weigh about 5,000lbs and have GVWR ratings of around 6,500lbs depending on bed configuration, 4x4 etc...
As an example: 2006 Chevy 1500 4x4 extended cab 6.5' bed:
GVWR =6,400lbs curb wieght= 5,050lbs: leaving 1350lbs for people, gear, and hitch weight.
so for example in Champhorse's case, you have a loaded gooseneck of 6,100lbs. For gooseneckss you can assume roughly 20-25% of that weight is on the hitch. Using 20%, thats 1220lbs. So... You have a total of 130lbs left for all passengers and any gear you have in the truck.
Champhorse I'm not implying you don't have a safe setup and your particular truck may have higher ratings, but you are likely close to, if not exceeding your GVWR even though you are well below the "maximum" tow rating listed for your truck. Your scenario is very common. And the only way to know for sure is to weigh your rig, since there is no way to exactly determine the hitch weight otherwise.
The Truck manufactures list the absolute maximum tow rating they can to look better than the competition. In reality you can't achieve the max tow rating with a gooseneck as you will exceed the GVWR. You could theoritically do it with a bumper pull since the hitch weight is typically only 10-15% of the trailer weight, not 20-25% for a GN and that is how they get away with listing such numbers.
Whether or not it is safe or even legal to exceed your GVWR I don't know. I choose to follow the manufactures ratings closely, even though they make them slightly difficult to intepret!
Posted 2006-01-04 12:38 PM (#34870 - in reply to #34677) Subject: RE: 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton pulling alum 3 horse GN
Veteran
Posts: 182
Originally written by Z71 on 2006-01-01 2:42 PM
How do you haul 4 & 5 horses in a 3 horse trailer? Also if your 18ft trailer is over the limit for your 3/4 ton, you must have an extremely heavy trailer or a very light duty 3/4 ton truck.
My trailer doesnt have a rear tack so there is room for me to get 2 avg sized horses in the rear stall comfortably. To get 5 in I take out the front divider and swing the rear one and latch into the front divider hole. Then I am able to get 2 avg horses in the front stall comfortably at a slant and 3 avg sized horses side by side facing the head of the trailer comfortably. With the divider moved up to the first ones hole it make the rear stall square and the front stall kinda of pie shaped.
I cant exactly remember the gvwt for my truck but I have figured it out a few times and with 4 horses I am over. The limit on my truck might be 12000 lbs. You usually add the wt of the truck, trailer, horses, tack, equip, hay ect..
Posted 2006-01-04 1:25 PM (#34878 - in reply to #34504) Subject: RE: 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton pulling alum 3 horse GN
Veteran
Posts: 198 Location: Iowa
GCWR is an important--but not a legally binding number...it is the recommendation of the manufacturer for the specific combination of components of a truck--gear set, auto/manual tranny/gas or diesel engine, size of engine, 4x4 or 2x4 etc...that's why it changes within the same model of truck depending on how the truck is equipped. In fact, until just recently, it was not even listed in the Chevy owner's manuals (my 1999 manual does not have a GCWR listed.
If you go over GCWR, you are being silly, possibly unsafe, and are voiding your warranty, but you are not illegal. That is because the information is not stamped on the vehicle anywhere, and is generally only listed in the owner's manual which can easily become lost or separated from the vehicle. In addition, components (transmissions, engines, gears, etc. may have been changed by previous owners, etc, which makes even published GCWRs unreliable--at least from a legal standpoint)
The really important LEGAL numbers are RGAWR, FGAWR and GVWR and are all stamped on the vehicle itself!!!!
GVWR IS a legal number. It is the SAME for every version of a vehicle regardless of engine, transmission, etc. It cannot be changed once a vehicle leaves the factory unless it goes through a re-certification process. The number you REALLY have to watch--from a legal perspective-- is GVWR!!!
The only reason I'm posting this is because too many people only pay attention to their GCWR...they stay well under it and believe everything is okay, when in fact they have not checked their GVW, and may be way over on GVWR...especially with a 1/2 ton pulling a gooseneck. And that one the cops can check...because it's stamped right on your vehicle.
PS: Insurance DOES cover you, even if you are at fault by being over your weights. Same as they cover you if you are drunk and run a red light. Your fault in both cases, but you are still covered by your policy up ot its maximums.
Posted 2006-01-05 8:21 AM (#34938 - in reply to #34504) Subject: RE: 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton pulling alum 3 horse GN
Elite Veteran
Posts: 634 Location: Tipton, IN
Insurance MAY cover to your limits, but YOU are liable. YOU will be sued, and the insurance company will not be a co-defendant with you in the cause, as YOU chose to ignore the vehicle limitations. Actually, with the vehicle being used improperly by YOU, you negate the insurance companies liability by using the vehicle in a manner exceeding what it is bindingly insured for use as. But the fact of the matter is this, why push it to that, just get the truck to do the damn job in the first place.
Posted 2006-01-05 9:06 AM (#34942 - in reply to #34938) Subject: RE: 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton pulling alum 3 horse GN
Veteran
Posts: 198 Location: Iowa
Originally written by efaubert1 on 2006-01-05 8:21 AM
Insurance MAY cover to your limits, but YOU are liable. YOU will be sued, and the insurance company will not be a co-defendant with you in the cause, as YOU chose to ignore the vehicle limitations. Actually, with the vehicle being used improperly by YOU, you negate the insurance companies liability by using the vehicle in a manner exceeding what it is bindingly insured for use as. But the fact of the matter is this, why push it to that, just get the truck to do the damn job in the first place.
efaubert...Not trying to start an argument, but your insurance WILL cover you. . It does not matter if you are at fault, negligent, operating the vehicle in an improper manner, etc. That is part of the risk the insurer accepts when they insure you in the first place. In fact, that is my whole point...people mix up apples and oranges in equating liability with insurance coverage. Yes YOU are personally liable...that has nothing to do with whether your insurance covers you or not. The whole reason you buy liability insurance is to cover...liability!!! Does insurance cover you if you speed, run a stop sign, drive drunk, don't have your vehicle properly maintained? Yes...up to the policy limits. And yes, your are very right--people should NOT push the limits of their truck until it reaches that point...and I agree 100%, get a truck that can do the job in the first place. But that's a totally different issue.
If we're dealing in facts about insurance, the fact is...just because you run your truck over its weights, or with underinflated tires, or over the speed limit, forgot to wear your glasses, dropped a cigarette in your lap, or got behind the wheel drunk does not mean your insurance company can refuse coverage for an accident after the fact because you were doing something improper. They can (and will) of course, cancel any future coverage.
Also, your insurance company WILL most likely be a co-defendant with you. It's not their choice...if they are named in the suit, guess what...they're a co-defendant. What is most likely to happen if you cause an accident while running over your weights? The insurance company will try to settle as quickly with the other party as they can, because they know they will lose in court because of your negligence.
On the other hand--an insurance company may have a strong case not to pay any REPAIR claims for YOUR vehicle. But that's a whole different subject than liability for causing an accident.
Posted 2006-01-05 10:01 AM (#34947 - in reply to #34504) Subject: RE: 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton pulling alum 3 horse GN
Regular
Posts: 93 Location: Northwest Indiana
Saddlebredlover,
I have an 02 GMC Ext Cab rwd 1/2 ton. It has the 4.8 V-8 engine. I pull safetly and within my vehicle specs' a 1995 3 horse Sundowner Sunlite 3' shortwall (no lq and two horses in the trailer). I live in NW Indiana, so it is pretty flat all around where we go. You need to find out what your trailer weighs loaded with all your equipment. Then you can calculate your trailer weight. then you can see if you can get by using a 1/2 ton or if you need to step up to a 3/4 ton.
Posted 2006-01-05 11:03 AM (#34953 - in reply to #34504) Subject: RE: 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton pulling alum 3 horse GN
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 455 Location: Ontario - east of TO
The most important part here is stopping - that's where the limits come in - if you are under limits then your truck's braking system is designed to stop the rig. Don't go over limits - period!
After that is settled, then you come to how it's used, engine size etc. This it for durability though - not safety (remember we have safety covered by not going over limits). For instance IMO if you only haul occasionally and/or short distances - you can go to the limits and be just fine - however if you will be doing a lot of hauling and are at or near your limits - you will have maintenance issues and repairs - that's a fact with machines - they don't like to run at maximum loads 100% of the time - and they are not designed to do it - no machine is - car, truck, photo copier whatever. But if it's mostly a daily driver and occasional tow vehicle - it will last you just fine being at or near limits when hauling.
There is also the speed factor when at limits - not so much with newer vehicles as older ones as it seems engines are better now... for instance I run a 1992 Chevy 3/4 ton (HD model) to pull my 3H aluminum w 6ft LQ... I'm fine as far as weight is concerned - but it has a 350 engine with over 300,000km on it.... it's tired - we don't go over 100km/h on the highway and she wouldn't stand up to high speeds in hilly areas I don't think (the engine that is the rest of the truck handles it just fine). But most of the time it's not hauling, and even then it's usually on slower secondary roads so she's lasting just fine. Though I am thinking of putting a 454 in it when the time comes to overhaul the engine (at 300,000 km that's eventually going to happen). I said new engines are better because friends of mine haul a 3H GN with 4ft dress with a Chevy 1500HD (suspension and ratings of a 3/4 ton) and their engine does not strain like mine does in the same area's.
1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton pulling alum 3 horse GN
