Posted 2006-01-01 10:16 PM (#34697) Subject: head to head trailers
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Christiana, TN
I have a two horse trailer and need to upgrade to a four horse, all of a sudden I went from one horse to four overnight. My horses are heavy drafts (one is extremely large) and the other is smaller in size, a large TB (17 hands) and a warmblood (drasft cross). I was wondering if there was an opinion on the head to head trailers, if horses liked them better than slant load, and would mine even fit in a slant load. My belgian mare is quite wide. Thanks for everyones help.
Posted 2006-01-02 6:03 AM (#34705 - in reply to #34697) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
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Posts: 954 Location: Hagerstown, MD
Hi Devon, it seems that the number of horses we have goes hand in hand with the number of available stalls in the barn at our place. As for trailers and drafts or large breeds, I prefer a head to head trailer. One of my first GN trailers was a Hd/Hd trailer and I really enjoyed it for shows and trail riding. The disadvantage is the length compared to a slant, but most drafts won't fit in a slant and you are back to Hd/Hd again. A friend of mine has six Percherons and we do several wagon trains and trail rides per year. I have two slant load trailers and none of his drafts will fit either of my slant loads. The newer slant load is extra tall with larger stalls too. Needless to say, he has a 4H Hd/Hd GN trailer. Happy trails.
Posted 2006-01-03 5:02 AM (#34767 - in reply to #34697) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
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Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
EBY, makes a hoss of a head to head, big, strong with a large dressing room, six foot I do believe. They are a little pricey, but aren't they all.. But then "they" say you get what you pay for. If I were buying a 4 or 6 horse head to head today it would be an EBY. Always wanted one and if I live long enough, I'll have one.
Posted 2006-01-03 5:19 AM (#34768 - in reply to #34697) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
Just seen the one that L.B.'s of Virginia has listed on the front page of this site. Six horse with six foot living quarters. Now where did I put that Mega Millions Lottery ticket?
Posted 2006-01-03 7:45 AM (#34779 - in reply to #34697) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 565 Location: Michigan
Jamco makes a really nice head to head 4 horse gooseneck trailer. I know some people who do carriage driving with their Clydesdales and travel to shows/demonstrations. I've been in their trailer and it is very nice, roomy, safe, sturdy. I really liked it and their horses were quiet in the trailer and traveled comfortably.
Posted 2006-01-03 8:35 AM (#34784 - in reply to #34697) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
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Posts: 720
Kiefer Built makes a slick 4H model. In the 6H, the Jamco is smashing. Platinum makes nice ones also. Sundowner makes a clean one. Then again, I guess most make one! H1
Posted 2006-01-03 5:20 PM (#34831 - in reply to #34697) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
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Posts: 2689
I have one - a 4-Star.
Expect a LOT of length, however it is partitioned. Mine is 30ft on the floor, approx 38 1/2 overall, 6ft of that is dr/tack, don't expect to cram a camper section in there and remember that any/ALL tack has to go in there or in trunks on the truck, a roof rack (and lift) could be useful if you plan to do ANY camping and/or think you need to carry a lot of hay. Supposedly horses riding facing backwards relax more (lower pulse rate) according to a study that has been cited here. A lot of free space in front of the horses' faces just SEEMS to be more comfortable than having to face into a corner.
Despite the length - or maybe once you get used to it - they're not THAT hard to haul around.
4 or 5 horse head to head trailers USUALLY have the axles set back just about as far as possible. 6 horse head to headers are often the same length and have the axles set more forwards to put the wheel arches in front of the rear horses' front hooves. They clip less, but are more prone to tail drag in rough fields. I'd probably have a 6 H H2H if I knew I'd never be meadow parking and dragging the tail around. There are plusses and minuses to each, personally I think the 5 horse (3 in the front where there are no wheel arches to consider, 2 in the back) is the best compromise. If they REALLY get along (and if your truck can handle it) a small one (or two) in the middle can work for short trips.
For Drafts I'd definitely be looking for 8ft width and 8ft height, maybe 8ft 6in. Mine is 7ft 6in high, a 17.1 HH OTTB seems to have plenty of headroom.
Not that I sell these things, but...
Water/feed stops can be done with you in the trailer - just like a miniature center aisle barn.
Center ramps can change your whole "trailering experience" (-:
No horse has to back out.
No person has to walk through poop when walking a horse out.
If you have to pick up a friend's horse at a back yard barn that doesn't have much turning space you can block the driveway and load right into the middle of the trailer.
There is no drop down windows issue at truck stops, i.e. no feeding of fingers by strangers' kids.
There must be more ?
Maybe I should write a FGA - frequently given answers.
Posted 2006-01-04 3:55 PM (#34891 - in reply to #34697) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
Member
Posts: 38 Location: Howard Cty, MD
Reg, I'd like to add this recent experience regarding the side load ramp and it's benefit. I just purchased a horse at an area auction. Since I now have a nice trailer to haul him in, it wasn't an issue of how was I going to get him back to the barn. This was also my first experience hauling a horse, and just my thrid time hauling the GN trailer. I have a Dream Coach 2+1 straight load with ramps on the rear and side.
When the horse saw the trailer, he was most eager to climb right in, and so my first experience with loading him was a dream. He was very calm in the trailer and ate his hay. Overall the ride to the barn was uneventful.
When we arrived at the barn, I attemtpted to unload him by backing him out. The horse's immediate reaction was to attempt to twist and turn around to walk out instead of back out. This was a first for me, as all the other horses I've dealt with or seen unload, always backed out without a problem, especially given that the trailer had a ramp. But this guy insisted on trying to turn around in the stall. Not wanting to hurt him or myself, I decided that I'd drop the breast bar and open the stud doors and walk him out (especially since the side ramp was already down) and down the side ramp. If I had been in my friend's trailer, it would have been a very difficult problem, as thier trailer is a straight load without the side ramp.
So having a side ramp along with a rear ramp is a great advantage for loading and unloading horses. Also, the extra 8 feet in front of the stall area is great for loading up all the hay and other 'stuff'.
Posted 2006-01-06 9:27 AM (#35005 - in reply to #34697) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Christiana, TN
Wow, thanks for all the responses. Everyone has answered my questions. Now I just have to find one I can afford, and will be able to pull. The truck woun't be a problem, I just bought a 03 F-350 non-dually now that was hard to find. Again thank you for helping me with my question.
Posted 2006-01-06 12:29 PM (#35017 - in reply to #35005) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
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Originally written by devon91 on 2006-01-06 9:27 AM
Wow, thanks for all the responses. Everyone has answered my questions. Now I just have to find one I can afford, and will be able to pull. The truck woun't be a problem, I just bought a 03 F-350 non-dually now that was hard to find. Again thank you for helping me with my question.
Ooops, BIG drafts + BIG head to Head trailer = Dually(can we say "Pin weight" ?).
Posted 2006-01-06 11:17 PM (#35048 - in reply to #34697) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Christiana, TN
What is pin weight? The trailer place I visited today said I should be fine. It is a pretty powerful truck, the dually only towed 1200 lbs more acording to ford. Plus I have a performance chip to increase horse power and fuel efficiency. Increased to 23 mpg highway. Not all my drafts are that big, only one is 18.3, the other is mabey 16.1 on a puffed up day. Same for my warmblood. I fully plan on more research before buying a trailer. It has to last a very long time! I am a poor college student finishing my masters and going for my PhD. But thanks for the heads up!
Posted 2006-01-07 1:35 AM (#35051 - in reply to #35048) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by devon91 on 2006-01-06 11:17 PM
What is pin weight? The trailer place I visited today said I should be fine. It is a pretty powerful truck, the dually only towed 1200 lbs more acording to ford. Plus I have a performance chip to increase horse power and fuel efficiency. Increased to 23 mpg highway. Not all my drafts are that big, only one is 18.3, the other is mabey 16.1 on a puffed up day. Same for my warmblood. I fully plan on more research before buying a trailer. It has to last a very long time! I am a poor college student finishing my masters and going for my PhD. But thanks for the heads up!
Sorry, "pin weight" is a term for the load that the coupler puts onto the ball. It should be a little in front of the rear axle's center line, but for figuring rear axle and tire load you can assume it all to be ON the rear axle and tires. The two more tires allow you to carry - a LOT MORE than twice what you can carry with only two, since their capacity is almost all available for additional load.
Towing capacity isn't the issue, carrying capacity IS !
Look up "payload" for DRW and SRW F350, figure about 20 to 25% of your trailer's weight will be "in the bed", exerted by the coupler, as "pin weight".
I really DO hope you're OK (even if I'm wrong), but the conventional wisdom is DRW(Dual Rear Wheels) for heavy gooseneck trailers.
Posted 2006-01-07 9:12 AM (#35060 - in reply to #34697) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Christiana, TN
Thank you for that info, I will definetly keep that in mind when I am shopping for a trailer. I hope that the dealer would tell me the truth about wether my truck would be able to pull the trailer. I am studyng Genetics, I had planned on going into equine genetics, but there just isn't a demand for that, so I have decided to go into human genetics, studying parkinsons and other genetics diseases. Basically genetics therapy. But I would still like to do the equine genetics on the side. I want to basically allow people to get what they want in a foal when they breed. I know pretty controversal, but I love the genetics aspects of everything! And transgentics could someday provide us with many useful things.
Posted 2006-01-07 9:17 AM (#35061 - in reply to #34697) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Christiana, TN
i just did a quick calculation with a towing capacity of 12800, and 25% payload I can expect around 3200lbs? Is that a correct assumption? Where will that get me in a trailer, would that be enough for a head to head? Thanks for helping me here, I don't know alot about the big trailers, I have always had suv's and bumper pulls. Plus like I said untill a short while ago I only had one horse for about 10 years,then bam! I had four. What was I thinking. I found a great bumper sticker the other day it said "Quick call my shrink I just bought another Horse". So true.
Posted 2006-01-07 10:30 AM (#35066 - in reply to #35060) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
Elite Veteran
Posts: 787 Location: Tenn/Ala.
Reg,
I generally agree with your conservative nature regarding towing abilities, and I want to add just a note or two on this one-
In the '06 Ford spec book, my copy ups the carrying capacity of a DRW over a SRW by about 1600#. While that is a nice number and about a 33% increase over the 4200# of the SRW, the two tires themselves are rated at over 6000# combined. So there's obviously a lot of loss there. While you and I like the extra two tires, we do see a LOT of folks that just don't want them unless necessary. My calculations show that Devon will likely be 1000# under max payload on a 4H fully loaded.
On another point, there is a lot of difference in a 29' 4H head to head, and a 35' 6 horse as to towing. So we probably shouldn't lump all head to heads together for generalities sake. Frankly, based on many years of CDL driving & equipment sales, I'd be comfortable, and within guidelines, in a SRW with the 4H with judicious loading practices. But we would definitely recommend against the 6H. In fact, a lot of the 6H get too big for the DRW & need a F-550 or similar.
And yes, Kay, I agree with you regarding identification, well put. RTSmith. Select Trailer Co. Dealer of Jamco, Bloomer, Platinum, Silverlite, Kiefer Built, & Ponderosa.
Posted 2006-01-07 1:06 PM (#35072 - in reply to #34697) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
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Posts: 2689
RTSmith,
A_nother thing that I skipped over was that on SOME trucks moving from SRW to DRW gets you narrower section tires, e.g on the GM 3500 the SRW tires are 245, on the DRW they're 215 - off the top of my head I don't know the load range differences between those two.
I don't think we're disagreeing THAT much, but I do think there is a useful range for the DRW 1 ton, e.g. trailers that are too big for 3/4 ton and really don't need the 4500/5500 mid-size series. How well that fits with the 4,5, 6 horse head to head trailers ? - I don't think there is a clear break-over point, bearing in mind that once you go to 6 the axles get set a lot farther forwards and less (percentage) of the (total) trailer weight is carried by the truck.
I wanted to bring some focus on PAYLOAD and help devon91 understand that it isn't JUST about what the truck can pull, it is also about what the truck can CARRY.
BTW, I can go along with "on a case by case basis" (-:
and I DO hope I'm wrong, for Devon's $ake.
Posted 2006-01-07 3:01 PM (#35080 - in reply to #35051) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
Elite Veteran
Posts: 954 Location: Hagerstown, MD
The following statement was made in your post:
The two more tires allow you to carry - a LOT MORE than twice what you can carry with only two, since their capacity is almost all available for additional load.
My F250's GVWR is 8600 and my F350 GVWR is 10500 pounds. The only real difference in the two trucks is an extra set of tires on the rear axle and some "magic spring dust" sprinkled on at the factory. How does that more than double my carrying capacity from the F250 SRW to the F350 DRW?
Posted 2006-01-07 7:06 PM (#35089 - in reply to #35080) Subject: RE: head to head trailers
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by deranger on 2006-01-07 3:01 PM
The following statement was made in your post:
The two more tires allow you to carry - a LOT MORE than twice what you can carry with only two, since their capacity is almost all available for additional load.
My F250's GVWR is 8600 and my F350 GVWR is 10500 pounds. The only real difference in the two trucks is an extra set of tires on the rear axle and some "magic spring dust" sprinkled on at the factory. How does that more than double my carrying capacity from the F250 SRW to the F350 DRW?
I don't know what your F250 and F350 weigh EMPTY.
IF (for round numbers) they are say 7500 and 8500 respectively then one COULD carry 1100 and the other 2000 - OK, not quite double but the 7500 and 8500 were arbitrary.
It was poor wording.
What I had kinda/sorta meant was that the TRUCK's weight is part of the load that SRW tires carry, subtract that from their rating to get approx what you can carry in the bed (subject to the axle's limit). Adding two more tires COULD easily triple what could be put in the bed, if for example SRWs on an equivalent empty truck were at less than 50% of their rating.
Gee, THAT was "poor" wording - the other post was worse, I need SLeeeeeep.
head to head trailers
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