Posted 2006-02-09 6:09 AM (#36789) Subject: How are the new 4-Stars?
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Posts: 18
Location: KY
I have an older 4-Star that I just love and am looking to replace. How are the newer models? Looking at an '05 or '06. Are there problems which seem to be "common" which I should be on the lookout for? Thanks!
Posted 2006-02-09 12:28 PM (#36827 - in reply to #36789) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
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Posts: 60
We had a 95 4Star and were looking in the fall of 04 and I was frankly not happy with the new 4 Stars but it was the first trailers I looked at. To get my old 4 Star I would need to switch brands to a Platinum, Elite, C&C or upgrade a bit to a Bloomer. We ended up w/ a Platinum and are very happy. 4 Stars no matter the hype just aren't the same as they used to be though the dealers will be happy to tell you those flimsy window guards, flimsy side compartment doors and new hinges are somehow an improvement. If you want a trailer like your old 4 Star look at Platinum, Elite and C&C and compare them to the new 4 Star before you decide. It was an easy choice for me but you may differ.
Posted 2006-02-09 1:29 PM (#36830 - in reply to #36827) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
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Posts: 45 Location: Tuttle, OK
I agree 100% with Syncho's comments. I used to be a diehard 4 Star fan but my last purchase from them in 2003 was a huge disappointment. There were a couple issues with the trailer and 4 Star was not very helpful in getting them resolved (even though the problems occurred on the first use of the trailer). I wouldn't ever own another 4 Star after my last experience. I have now switched over to a Cimarron Norstar and I have been very pleased. Not only is the trailer high quality, the customer service I got was excellent. When I took the trailer in to have a step added to it, I even got a follow up call asking if everything was done to my satisfaction....can't beat service like that.
Posted 2006-02-09 2:30 PM (#36832 - in reply to #36827) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
Expert
Posts: 1719 Location: PA
4-star still a quality trailer. The only thing they have changed that I don't like is the hinge set up. I prefer the welded ones. Some people here disagree and prefer the bolt on hinges but the welded ones are stronger.
Posted 2006-02-10 10:17 AM (#36891 - in reply to #36789) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
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Posts: 17
Location: Kentucky
I was a big 4Star fan but not anymore. They have really lessened the quality of the trailer. The windows and latches are very flimsy they are not a braced as they were in the past, I don't like the hinges. Its not because they aren't welded but they are tiny. I just don't see them holding up like they used to. I sold my 4star and purchased a Platinum. I can say the customer service was wonderful with Platinum. I've not had any big problems but the little problem that I did have was fixed in a flash with no questions asked. I'm sure the 4stars aren't bad trailers but I just didn't get the feeling that the new ones would hold up like they did in the past and if I'm going to spend that kind of money I want it to last.
Posted 2006-02-11 8:24 PM (#36968 - in reply to #36962) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
Member
Posts: 18
Location: KY
My 1992 model had some leak issues around the windows in the neck; but others have been okay. I didn't know if there were any patterns to problems in the 2005 or 2006 trailers. :-)
Posted 2006-02-11 8:30 PM (#36969 - in reply to #36792) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
Member
Posts: 18
Location: KY
<< if you are used to a 4 Star you won't be happy with anything else. >>
You know, I've had a couple of dealers of competing brands tell me the same thing. I thought that was pretty upfront about them and appreciated what they had to say. If I know of someone looking for the brands those dealerships represent, I wouldn't hesitate to refer to them. You don't find many like that.
Posted 2006-02-11 8:32 PM (#36970 - in reply to #36966) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by hav2ride on 2006-02-11 7:57 PM
Welded hinges are just more substantial. If you'd see one, you would know what I mean.
My (door) hinges are rivetted on.
I think if a door gets bashed it doesn't much matter how it is attached, the rivetted hinge MIGHT breakaway a little easier, resulting in less damage.
BTW, welding typically weakens aluminum alloys, so in this regard at least it might be better to bolt or rivet.
Posted 2006-02-11 8:32 PM (#36971 - in reply to #36830) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
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Posts: 18
Location: KY
What kinds of issues did you run into with your '03 model? Was it the manufacturer or the dealer who wasn't very helpful in getting the matter resolved?
Posted 2006-02-12 8:23 AM (#36990 - in reply to #36970) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
Expert
Posts: 1719 Location: PA
Acoording to my husband, who has been in the maching and fabricating business since he was 12!, when done properly, with compatible materials and correct methods, welding aluminum is very strong, much better than riveting. He welds aluminum for the military all of the time. If they thought rivets or bolts would be better, that's what would be done.
Posted 2006-02-12 8:28 AM (#36991 - in reply to #36971) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
Expert
Posts: 1719 Location: PA
I have had 3 4-stars and all were quality. I have an Elite on order right now only because they gave me a better deal. I have 4 top brand trailers on my list: Elite, 4-star, C&C, and Hart. Construction and horse type features are my top priorities.
Posted 2006-02-12 9:08 AM (#36997 - in reply to #36990) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by hav2ride on 2006-02-12 9:23 AM
Acoording to my husband, who has been in the maching and fabricating business since he was 12!, when done properly, with compatible materials and correct methods, welding aluminum is very strong, much better than riveting. He welds aluminum for the military all of the time. If they thought rivets or bolts would be better, that's what would be done.
I can argue it both ways.
There is a case for "fail safe", where it is safer to have something tear away than to have it hold and cause greater damage (or injury).
WRT: Properly done, compatible materials, correct methods, etc.
Aluminum alloys used in trailers derive much of their strength from heat treating processes. I doubt that it is practical to completely and properly heat treat the HAZ at most of the welds after welding to regain the original strenght of the parent metal.
In any case, 1/4 inch stainless steel rivets aren't exactly flimsey (-:
PS "Military" is a $PECIAL CA$E (-:
So are medical and aerospace.
Posted 2006-02-12 9:24 AM (#36998 - in reply to #36991) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
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Posts: 1283 Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey
Originally written by hav2ride on 2006-02-12 8:28 AM
I have 4 top brand trailers on my list: Elite, 4-star, C&C, and Hart. Construction and horse type features are my top priorities.
How does a Hart get in the same company as Elite, 4Star, and C&C. Hart's are in no way built the same way? In my humble opinion they would be in the next group of trailers with, Cimmaron, All-Aluminum Sundowners, All-Aluminum Kiefers, Sooner and Exiss.
Posted 2006-02-12 12:30 PM (#37003 - in reply to #36997) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
Expert
Posts: 1719 Location: PA
"PS "Military" is a $PECIAL CA$E (-:"I used the military only as an example. They weld aluminum for many other purposes. Granted, if a trailer is in an accident it is easier to replace bolted hinge but you'll never be going down a highway and lose a window with a welded on hinge like my friend did with her window with a bolted on hinge.
Posted 2006-02-12 12:34 PM (#37005 - in reply to #36998) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
Expert
Posts: 1719 Location: PA
The Harts I've been in had very good construction. I owned one about 10 years ago and it was excellent. They do have fiberglass roofs, which I'm not usually a fan of, but Harts are so strong you can walk on them. Have you had a bad experience with a Hart?
Posted 2006-02-13 1:39 PM (#37097 - in reply to #36998) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
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Posts: 9
Location: Hutchinson, Ks.
I agree, the Hart trailer is not in the same company as the trailers that you mentioned. Those three trailers use a sheeted aluminum floor on 12 inch crossmembers, compared to a thicker (.140"),extruded aluminum floor on 6 inch crossmembers. The Hart has a full header tube on the sidewalls, the other three do not. Hart has a 5 inch tube in the kickwall and above the fender, the others do not. The Hart uses 1/4 inch steel "boomerang" brackets to reinforce the stress points at the gooseneck and where the gooseneck meets the floor, the others do not. Hart uses a 42" gusset at the coupler, and on longer, heavier trailers adds additional gussets, the others do not. The other three trailers use an aluminum sheet roof, Hart uses a 5/8 inch thick insulated (R3) roof standard.
The Hart is in a totally different class of trailer.
Posted 2006-02-13 2:57 PM (#37113 - in reply to #37097) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
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Posts: 1283 Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey
Originally written by Sporty on 2006-02-13 1:39 PM
I agree, the Hart trailer is not in the same company as the trailers that you mentioned. Those three trailers use a sheeted aluminum floor on 12 inch crossmembers, compared to a thicker (.140"),extruded aluminum floor on 6 inch crossmembers. The Hart has a full header tube on the sidewalls, the other three do not. Hart has a 5 inch tube in the kickwall and above the fender, the others do not. The Hart uses 1/4 inch steel "boomerang" brackets to reinforce the stress points at the gooseneck and where the gooseneck meets the floor, the others do not. Hart uses a 42" gusset at the coupler, and on longer, heavier trailers adds additional gussets, the others do not. The other three trailers use an aluminum sheet roof, Hart uses a 5/8 inch thick insulated (R3) roof standard.
The Hart is in a totally different class of trailer.
Ok you asked for it. You call those "crossmembers" that Hart puts on 6" centers? You think it's good that they have to gusset the goosenecks with STEEL in an aluminum trailer? And finally you think a fiberglass covered plastic roof is a good thing? Hart is lucky I put them in the same class with Sooner , Kiefer, and Featherlite. You may get the average person walking in to your dealership to buy those talking points, but not here. Nobody see the faults in any brand better than the guy who puts living quarters in them.
Posted 2006-02-13 3:59 PM (#37122 - in reply to #36789) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
Member
Posts: 9
Location: Hutchinson, Ks.
Yes they are crossmembers. There is as much material in the Hart crossmember is in a standard 4 in crossmember. Lift up the mats on the other brands of trailers after 2 to 4 years of use. Are the floors suppose to look like a washboard road? Two of the weakest points in any gooseneck trailer are at the nose. All of the major brand aluminum trailers, with the exception of Sooner, use some steel at those stress points. The aluminum alone is not strong enought at those locations. Yes the roof is better. Try walking on an aluminum skin roof. It is more quiet than an aluminum roof, and alot cooler. As far as conversion companies, two of the nations premier conversion companies have chosen Hart Trailers as some of the only trailers that they will do conversions in.
Posted 2006-02-13 4:28 PM (#37125 - in reply to #36789) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
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Posts: 1283 Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey
So you do acknowedge that they really are not I-Beam crossmembers ("same amount of material") as far as other brands and Steel in the gooseneck, My 4 Star don't have any steel "Gussets" I'm doing the interior on a Kiefer it don't have any steel "Gussets" the only trailers I have been around that have them is Hart, Sidekick, and Sundowner. I'm sure there are others but I have not done a conversion on them yet. You will never sell me or alot of people I know on that fiberglass reinforced plastic roof (I can stand on my sons plastic sand box but I wouldn't want it on the roof of my trailer). As far as conversion companys if I could do only one brand of trailer and stay busy then you can bet I would, I don't work for dealers I work for the end users so I get to see all brands. Just telling you what I see.
Posted 2006-02-13 8:42 PM (#37142 - in reply to #36789) Subject: RE: How are the new 4-Stars?
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Posts: 2689
Oh Ohh - We're back to the use of steel in aluminum trailers issue (AGAIN).
Given that the coupler tube is steel, because that is the only material that they can be bought from the suppliers in, there has to be a way of transitioning to the aluminum frame. The usual and simplest way to do that is to weld the tube to a steel sub-frame that can be bolted up to the aluminum cross members of the gooseneck's floor.
How much, what type, how thick the various brackets and gussets are and whether or not they're needed are design details. These details can be used for ad copy, but taken out of the context of the WHOLE design are not meaningful indicators of a particular manufacturer's (relative) design or build quality.
How are the new 4-Stars?
