Posted 2006-06-17 9:27 PM (#43176) Subject: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Veteran
Posts: 153 Location: Grant City, Missouri
I just returned from the June ride at CCTR. It was a very warm June ride. Yesterday while riding we found 2 dead horses. Both horses were where there is deep water which makes me assume that the horses drowned. It has always been a problem...people riding into deep water and having tie downs on their horses. Do people not know to take the tie downs off? Is the problem with new riders? I don't understand how people can do this to their horses. People canoeing the river told us about the second horse which we ended up discovering as we rode up river. What do those people think about we horse people? It gives the public a bad impression of the way we take care of our horses. It was a very sad sight to see these beautiful animals lying there beside the river. I hope that people will remind fellow riders to take off their tie downs!
Posted 2006-06-18 12:10 AM (#43184 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 303 Location: Grapeland, Texas
I saw some supposedly "experienced" trailriders last month getting ready to bail off in some fairly deep water with the tie down still on one horse. Someone caught them before they went in and told them of the danger. They didn't have a clue.
Posted 2006-06-18 8:06 AM (#43191 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Veteran
Posts: 174 Location: Missouri
That is so sad. They surely won't leave them in the river? There are so many ignorant people that go to that ride. We went to the July 4th ride a few years back. It was over 100 degrees every day. Some people rode those poor horses all day long in that heat. those were horses that probably hadn't been ridden all year until they got there and then I'm sure they weren't on any electrolytes or probably even watered all day until they were done for the nite. The poor things would be just lathered with sweat. We saw one young paint horse that this kid (teenager) never unsaddled and I commented that he was going to kill him. The next day we were going to eat lunch and there he was riding around and the horse just fell over dead. I wonder how many horses die up there every year. We had 2 friends that lost horses 10 days after being there from salmonella. They weren't stalled in the same barn. But were at there at the same time and both horses contacted salmonella so it had to come from there. Anyways I just don't care to stay up there anymore.
Posted 2006-06-18 8:48 AM (#43193 - in reply to #43184) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Regular
Posts: 54 Location: Danielsville,Ga.
Originally written by longearsrule on 2006-06-18 12:10 AM
I saw some supposedly "experienced" trailriders last month getting ready to bail off in some fairly deep water with the tie down still on one horse. Someone caught them before they went in and told them of the danger. They didn't have a clue.
Why would you ever need a tie-down on a trail horse.if a horse needs a tie-down to ride,leave him at home.
Posted 2006-06-18 12:15 PM (#43195 - in reply to #43193) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 303 Location: Grapeland, Texas
Muleskinner, I don't know why someone would want to ride a horse on trails with a tie down. To me you are just asking for trouble. But these women tried to make everyone believe that these were good trail horses. I didn't ride around them because at times the horses would throw little fits. Just an accident waiting to happen!
Posted 2006-06-18 12:37 PM (#43197 - in reply to #43193) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 303 Location: Grapeland, Texas
Muleskinner, I don't know why someone would want to ride a horse on trails with a tie down. To me you are just asking for trouble. But these women tried to make everyone believe that these were good trail horses. I didn't ride around them because at times the horses would throw little fits. Just an accident waiting to happen!
Posted 2006-06-18 3:05 PM (#43200 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Veteran
Posts: 274 Location: MO in woods
Sorry but NEVER ever have heard anything good about that place.I hear people saying horses drown ever ride ever year.You think if they could pick up beer they could take off tie down.Or not ride at all.Is one huge drunken feast is what people say about place.Foods crap too I hear.Why even haul horses to place an not casre for them etc etc etc.Sorry but so tired of hearing such SAD sorry animals sufffering while owners are too drunk etc to care for them in heat or stalls.How long is this gonna go on before someone or something saves the animals????????Sorry for few of you who go there an care or happen to see the abuse an neglect first hand too.
Posted 2006-06-18 10:52 PM (#43225 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322 Location: Fort Madison, Iowa
To answer you question LFEquine, CCTR stands for Cross Country Trail Ride and it's located near Emminence Missouri.
Emminence is known for their beautiful riding but also for the big partying going on. Animals get neglected because of it. I really hate hearing people neglecting and abusing their animals. I won't be around anyone that's not good to their horses and for that matter, any of their animals.
You hear stories like that every year and you'd hope people would start to catch on.
Posted 2006-06-19 10:30 AM (#43246 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 301 Location: Catoctin Mtn, Maryland
Let's face it, tie downs are used on trail horses because the "owners" won't take the time to work with the animal or invest the money in a qualified trainer. Or maybe they're riding horses that they shouldn't be riding. Boy this really angers me when I hear of this happening.
We purchased a horse several years back and the owner said that a "tie-down" was the only way anyone could ride this 13 y/o gelding. Within 3 months we had that gelding on a snaffle dee bit, NO tie-down. He's the best trail horse we got. We ran into her a few years later and she was "shocked" to see that he didn't have a tie-down on. She couldn't believe it. She, by the way, had owned this horse since he was 3 y/o. So she had 10 years to screw him up.
Posted 2006-06-19 12:24 PM (#43257 - in reply to #43246) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Veteran
Posts: 238 Location: West Coast
Originally written by windwalker2 on 2006-06-19 10:30 AM
In my opinion tie-downs should be out-lawed!
This is a tragedy and very sad, but I have to disagree with you on your comment about tie downs. While I do agree with everyone that you shouldn't need a tie down on a trailhorse, tiedowns sometimes do serve a purpose.
I team rope and use tie downs on my horses when I rope. We use them not because my horses aren't broke, but because it's gives them (they're head horses) something to balance against when pulling a steer across the arena. When we aren't roping, we *never* need, or use, a tie down. My horses are extremely broke and soft in the face, I ride them in a snaffle when not roping. In fact, I show them in Western and english pleasure classes too and they do pretty well. So for us the tie down when roping is merely a tool to help our horses do their job easier and better.
Tie downs can serve a good purpose, but they're like anything else, spurs for example, when in the wrong hands can be abusive or deadly. I do agree that generally, people who use tie downs on trail should throw away the tie down and find a qualified trainer instead.
Anyway, not trying to start a fight here, I too, just wanted to express my opinion.
Posted 2006-06-19 4:48 PM (#43276 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR
Regular
Posts: 56 Location: Oregon
Hello everyone, I just wanted to comment, until I moved out west I attended the CCTR in August for 15 years. I returned last year for the 50th anniversary celebration. Perhaps it was because I am older now (over 40) but there did not seem to be as much drunkeness as I remember. The heat and certainly the humidity (we don't have too much of that in Oregon) really slowed me down. I didn't hear of any horses or people being injured on the ride last August. I've known Jim, the owner, for most of my life. If he knew horses were being neglected while on his ride, I think he would set in. If your on the ride and see/hear or suspect it's going on, go see him. Having said that, the comment about the food was right. It was terrible compared to what I remembered, however I wasn't there for the food, I got to see many old friends, see the great trails of southern Missouri and float the great Jacks fork river! For the price you pay to camp, eat, be entertained and meet friends from all over the mid west, it is hard to beat!. I've been looking for something similar in Oregon, closest I've come is a ride for the weekend (Friday, Saturday and Sunday) at a ranch outside of Ashland Oregon. They want $250/person for Friday dinner, Saturday 3 meals and Sunday breakfast. A dance on Saturday night, no electrical hook up, no corrals. . Mighty spendy compared to CCTR!
Posted 2006-06-20 9:01 AM (#43313 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Veteran
Posts: 179 Location: Illinois
I use a tie down on my paint mare, because seldom and very seldom she might try to rear. When we first got her she was terriable, would really go up. But now after 5 years she's learned to trust me. I've tried different bits. She did good in the bitless bridle and that's when she learned to trust me and finally quit going up.I went back to a bit for whoa reasons. But over Memorial weekend she didn't want to go across a bridge and gave a little up. I use it I guess for me, gives me a little more confidence too. You all might disagree with me but it works for me and I'm sticking with it. And by the way I know to unhook or take it off if I get in deep water. Just had to put my 2cents in.
Posted 2006-06-20 9:32 AM (#43321 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Veteran
Posts: 209 Location: pensacola, fl
I agree w/shari. I have a mare that is very tempermental. She is 25 years old and has a mind of a 2 year old sometimes. I can ride her for 5 days in a row with no problems, and then get on her the 6th day and she will go along great for a while and then all of a sudden she will break and run for absolutely no reason at all. The only control I could ever hope for at this point comes from the tie down. I have had serveral trainers work with her but the fact that she respects men more than women means that she never does it with them. (Guess I need to find a woman trainer) Also I have a very large QH Gelding that is 26 yrs old, he loves the trails and is very egar to go out, but on the way back when he is a little tired he trips a lot. The pressure from the bit and leverage from the tie down helps him to catch himself so that he never goes all the way down. I always run my tie down through my breast collar so that there is no way of them accidently just stepping through it and I always unsnap it when the horses are drinking from a creek or river and when we enter deeper water for swimming, so I think that in the right hands that tie downs are a plus. and in the wrong hands even the best of something can be disasterous.
Posted 2006-06-20 12:51 PM (#43338 - in reply to #43200) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Member
Posts: 10
Location: Naperville, Ill
I agree with the person talking about the post. We came down to the June rides, I will never go back, too much rowdy people, people behaving like a bunch of animals. I think the CCTR has turned into a sin den.
Posted 2006-06-20 4:43 PM (#43356 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Veteran
Posts: 187 Location: KS
I don't like to see tie downs on trail rides, because of accidents I have seen. A friend of mine had bought a new quarter horse that was around 16 hands and insisted that he had to be ridden with a tie down, he would stumble and lunge going up and down the hills. I got her to take his tie down off and then he moved beautifully. I don't think he was able to get his head in a position to where he was able to move out correctly and comfortable for the hills.
Posted 2006-06-20 5:40 PM (#43357 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Veteran
Posts: 153 Location: Grant City, Missouri
Boy! I started something here! I was discouraged at how horse people can sometimes be. They give trailriders a bad image, just like some of the party folks at CCTR have given the trail ride a bad image. However, on the subject of CCTR....I think it is one of the best vacations a family can have. I've been going since 1976 and mostly the August ride which is a big party ride, however I still get excited as I drive into camp. I raised my 2 kids down there as it was our yearly family vacation. We met folks from all over and looked forward to re-uniting with them every year. Things have changed; the food isn't what it used to be, but they feed a large crowd. I miss the flap jacks and I miss the free sawdust bedding, but you still can't beat it for what you pay to get in the gate. Everybody down there isn't there to get drunk and be careless with their horses. Jim and Jane have worked hard to build the ride up to what it is today. Jim has calmed down a lot of the rowdiness. He enforces no cars being driven around the camp during the nite to make it safer for folks to ride their horses. He now how has a security force that helps with that. The trails are some of the prettiest around and having the river to enjoy in the summer months is pretty nice. It isn't for everybody, but I recommend it to anybody that wants to have a great time. April and November are smaller rides that are their best kept secret!
Posted 2006-06-21 10:35 AM (#43388 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Expert
Posts: 1283 Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey
I have been to the Oct. ride at CCTR for the last 10 yrs. yes, I have seen horses mistreated usually by some punk young man 18-25yrs. old. Is it wide spread? NO, anytime you put 3000 people together with horses the law of averages say you are going to get a few idiots mixed in there. I have also been to walking horse shows where the percentage of idiots is alot higher, NO they didn't kill the horses but mistreated them just the same. I have been to Quarter horse shows and seen halter classes were it was ovious the horses were mistreated to look the way they did. I am sure that all elements of the horse world include idiots, I and alot of america saw a horse this year breakdown on national TV(Barbaro), that I feel had been handled by idiots Racing at 2 yrs old, then trying to run the Triple Crown with 2 months off before the Derby? If we look around we are surrounded by idiots, it's up to us to determine what level of it we think is unacceptable. I don't think we can blame Jim at CCTR for them showing up at his place.
Posted 2006-06-21 1:29 PM (#43399 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Regular
Posts: 63 Location: Missouri
Hi, I need to pipe in and concur with Lea Anne, HWBar and clow.I’m now in my 30’s but grew up at CCTR.My family went every year for our family vacation.Those are cherished memories and ones I hope to share with my own family now. Yes, things can get a bit rowdy, but the people down there are normally pretty polite to others who don’t want to participate…and if they aren’t, Jim will get involved and take care of things.Yes, I too miss the flapjacks, but believe me the food is pretty darn good when I’ve only spent $250 per person to attend.I have a friend who just spent $8000 for 7 days at Disneyland and I’m sure she didn’t have near as much quality family time as I will have with my husband and kids this August.
I live in Iowa now and have camped at several equestrian campgrounds across the state and people generally keep to themselves…Everyone was a stranger and wanted to keep it that way.I never feel that way when I go to CCTR.I try to meet as many people as I can and I think others try the very same thing.If that’s not what you’re into then maybe its best you not come.Just remember, we’re not down there to drink ourselves silly or drown our horse, but to enjoy a community of fellow trail riders...a fellowship.That truly is why most continue to go down to CCTR…the seasoned veterans aren’t the ones giving CCTR a bad name…we wear our 10 year, 15 year or 30 year belt buckles with pride.Now let’s go camping!See you in August…I’ll be the wild red-head riding the beautiful liver chestnut saddlebred. Who knows, we might even know each other. Natalee
Posted 2006-06-25 9:59 AM (#43582 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Elite Veteran
Posts: 690 Location: missouri
My husband and I have been riding an awful long time and have NEVER gone to CCTR rides because we have seen so many idiots everywhere else... I've never heard anything positive about CCTR... it is a prety place...(I drove over there and looked)... We just returned from Golden Hills and even though it is a calm, well organized place.. we still saw some people with tie-downs in the water!!! Why don't these rides post a ruling against it??? Most are women who ride with idiot friends who have no experience and $20 horses that they tie-down so they can stay on them...the husband won't ride (golf,hunting, hunting blonds, etc...) so they come to these places seeking knowledge from two one hour roundpen sessions they watch.
Posted 2006-06-26 6:30 AM (#43615 - in reply to #43176) Subject: RE: Bison Trailer
Veteran
Posts: 212 Location: novinger, mo
I can't even imagine riding with 3000 other riders! That is not my idea of trail riding. That would be a nightmare.
I love the solitude of ridng, not being packed sardine-like with 2999 other campers. There are a number other places to go near Eminence where you can ride the beautiful MO trails without camping in a temporary city.
Posted 2006-06-26 8:08 AM (#43622 - in reply to #43618) Subject: RE: Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 379 Location: Columbia, TN
I have been going to CCTR this Oct. will be my 24 yr. All the people around me go to bed by 10:30 and are up early to ride. So I don't have a problem on the Oct. ride I have never heard of any horse drowning , have seen several colic and one die from being over ridden I had to bite myself from not snatching the guy off the horse and had wished latter I had. Jim really tries to keep under control but it is hard with that many people. The people that party are usually down by the river.
Posted 2006-06-26 1:43 PM (#43651 - in reply to #43615) Subject: Re: Dead Horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 303 Location: Grapeland, Texas
Originally written by j&j on 2006-06-26 6:30 AM
I can't even imagine riding with 3000 other riders! That is not my idea of trail riding. That would be a nightmare.
I feel the same way. I like the smaller groups. I know people that love those big rides, don't know why, but at least they have a place to go and don't crowd out the ones I go to. I don't like big crowds anywhere tho.
Dead horses at CCTR, what a tragedy
