You might also try a posting in the "Horse Talk" forum. There are some very knowledgeable people that routinely post there, that might be able to help.

Gard

Why do you need to tie her in the trailer?  How does she stand tied away from or outside of the trailer?  We teach our to load and unload out of side by side trailers first, cause 99* of the time when they load and unload from them they will load and unload form anything.  Even if we use a stock trailer to haul with, all of our horse will back out, none of them will even try to turn around.

I guess we are retarts, or just have really great horses, we never tie any of ours, just lay the lead rope over there withers and they load, we get to place to unload, place our hand on their hip and talk to them remove the butt bar and ask them to back.....

Loaded, sorry this maybe long!

Getting her in your 2 horse trailer really needs 2 people and a whip (not to beat her, just as an extention of you arm)  First it is a good thing to make sure she minds you while in hand (leading, backing and stay off the top of you) Then start by asking for 1 foot at a time to step into the trailer and back her out, then work up to 2 feet and so on.  have one person stand at her head (left side) the other at her between her barrel and hip with whip (left side out of kicking range) the person at head asking for forward movement only if she does not give the second person rase the whip to her hip, if still no movement touch her on the base of the tail with the whip, if still no movement tap in same location until you get movement then stop tapping.  This is not something that will be done overnight.  We only work with our new ones about 30 mins. to an hour at a time every 2 or 3 days not back to back......

you ask why tire her...i guess I 'spose i was supposed to!...my 2horse trailer is a walk through and I am afraid she would get her head around the corner...and the stock trailer that we are carpooling with has 3 horses hauled in it which are not stablemates...i am thinking about getting a slant trailer--extra tall and wide open. would that help my dilema?  would I need to tie her in that?  I was able to get her in last night, a few feet at a time, then whole body (in the stock) but when we tried to back her out she flew outand hit her head..next time I tried to turn her around and she turned too fast and smashed me... i'm wondering how they loaded her when they delivered her...next time I buy one I'll ask for a loading demonstration!  i guess i still need to know how to break her of pulling back when just tied, anyway...

You didn't answer how she stands tied at other times, so I am going to assume that you have the same results. Tie an inner tube tight to a tree or a stout post, tie her short to the other end of the inner tube, and leave for a few of hours. When she gets tired of pulling she will stand nice as can be.

I can't overly suggest about the ground manners. Best of luck!

Your trailer should have breast bar on it...

The backing out fast is an easy fix,  again must have ground manners!  And this is where the putting one foot at a time and backing out come into play.  If you do it one foot at a time and back her out when YOU tell her to not when she wants too.  We have had a few horse we have worked with do this and the owners tell us "thats just how she/he does it and we let them" that is only a wreck looking for a place to happen same as with letting them turn around in a trailer.  Just have to take you time and not ask for too much at one training period.  If you start pushing things will only get worse.

So I would say start over asking for one foot at a time and backing her out, then maybe get to a good point after doing 2 feet, backing up while calm and being consistant and let her stop for the day, then wait a day or 2 and start over and get 3 or maybe all 4!  Just remember if things start going down hill just slow down and get back to a good point and stop!

I use the inner tube for all of my weanling colts.  Not left for 2-3 hours alone, but 30 minutes to an hour at a time with me just around the corner cleaning stalls.  The inner tube is tied up high to the back wall of a stall I made especially for this process.  I've never tied an older non halter broke horse to the tube because of the inside height of my stall.  Older horse could bang their head real easy.  I have a tie ring inside my round pen that I use for older horses.  If used properly this works real well.  The ground manners and being able to make the horse move their feet and go past you as you stand still is the start of getting your horse to load without you in the trailer tugging on them.  This is a slow process and not accomplished fully in one try but over several days of slow progression.  As far as tied in the trailer, if the horse has been taught to back out sometimes as soon as the back gate is opened they will start to back out.  I took our stud to the vet for some stitches the other day.  He has always been loaded with the reins wrapped around his neck.  As we left the horse lot, he was acting up as we left his mares so I tied him to settle him down.  He stands tied for hours at a time and has never set back.  Well as you would guess as soon as I opened the back gate he started to  back out and even with me slapping him on the butt, he still came on out.  As soon as he hit the end of the lead he did acutally stop and reload.  Could have been a real wreck. 

actually, in my first post, i did say that she does pull back at random times, and for no apparent reason.  Sometimes she will go WEEKS without a problem, then one day, boom, she pulls.  Her ground manners are actually really good. She is a quiet, patient 10 year old small quarter mare. She doesn't like to be touched behind her right ear, so I know that sets her off.  I had someone suggest a blocker tie ring, but i would have to order one, since no one around here carries them. wh did make some proress yesterday getting 2 feet in the trailer, and kept at it unitl she let me signal her out.  But thart was a stock trailer I was only able to borrow for a few days.  My 2 horse has a permanent partition.  It is also black, and makes it dark.  I will try the innertube idea on the tying.  do most people not tie in trailers?  I usually keep the lead draped over my morgan, who is a very fast unloader--everything she does is fast!! but i still tie her as she will try and turn around.  i just keep the lead on so its less i have to hook when we stop, and I can catch her on the way out!

t

I agree the horse needs some ground work, etc...but I have been using 'The Clip' with my horses and have been very pleased with the results. It is similar to the Blocker Tie Ring but has more adjustability. I don't need it all of the time but use it in the trailer and for 'tying' to the trailer and I have used it on the picket line. My horses typically do not pull back but when one horse stuck his butt under the face of the other when tied to the trailer he pulled back to get away from the big butt under his nose. The Clip allowed some of the rope to release when he pulled back to get away from a potential kick (in his mind) but still kept him tied with no broken equipment and he remained calm. It works in the trailer so that if the horse were to fall, enough rope will release so he won't hang himself. If you do decide to use one though, it is designed to be used with a 5/8 inch poly lead rope (like the mountain climbing rope) it doesn't work with a regular cotton lead rope.

Reschooling is definitely the answer but using one of these items is a little insurance when they have a 'moment' whether it be an accident or a panic.

Good luck!

no, it is a fixed partial... 

My mom has a little quarter pony that does the same thing.Back when she was being saddle trained, they used a saddle that was too narrow and hurt, she got into the habit of throwing herself over backwards at saddling time (yeah, I was livid when I moved back into the state and saw what was going on). After breaking many halters (even rope ones), lead lines and various types of ties, she had it down to a science and any time she wanted to get out of doing something (standing for the farrier, etc) she figured out how to just randomly and unexpectedly throw herself backwords.

I can't say enough about groundwork and respect.. this mare is pretty much a pasture ornament and doesn't get worked with a lot.. but we did make progress and its now very rare for her to attempt this little trick.

What did work for her in the mean time while we worked on respect/ground manners, was this halter: http://www.horse.com/Control-Halter-Poll-Strap-BMH08.html

Its not one of those "control" halters with a cable built in, just a nylon web strap that goes over the poll and applies pressure to an uncomfortable spot when the horse pulls. They stop pulling, instant release. This was a mare who snapped regular halters and rope halters left and right, she tested this one once and immediately stepped forward.. she did not like that pressure at all. She has never sat down and fought it..

I've heard mixed reviews about trying the inner tube deal.. I think that depends on the horse. Some will give in, others will fight until they hurt themselves, and I'd rather see a few other things tried before risking injury and chiropractic bills :)

So that halter might be something to try, just to help you out and as an added measure of safety considering your daughter will be working with her. Obviously if you do try it, tie with a quick release knot and before you tie it, work with her on the ground first and put some pressure on the lead so she knows what it will feel like, don't just tie her up and let her throw her weight into it and get an unexpected shock/pressure.

Again though, this doesn't fix the underlying problem of the simple fact that the mare learned she can do something and get what she wants, and that she needs to learn to respect you guys and do what you say, which will come with ground work.

Just as if you was starting OVER!  I start mine by tying them lose or just drapping the lead rope over whatever I am using to tie too.  We only have 12 horses now and EVERYONE of them will stand tied on a LOOSE lead rope, however my rope horse was spooked by a stuipd kid on a 4 wheel 2 years ago and we have been working on her de-spooking.  She was tied to the trailer and he came flying by and she set back HARD and we are just now getting her back to the point we can actually tie her back to the trailer.  Funny thing is she only does this at the trailer!  We have been working on this at home with our 4 wheeler and she is getting better, so for the time being I just leave her tied loose just incase.  But either way all of our horses will stand on a loose lead rope and our 4 regular rides all ground tie with no hobbles!

Lookie here!!!

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